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Motors EU enforces speed limiters on all cars by 2022

Discussion in 'General' started by Happy Hopping, 31 Mar 2019.

  1. Happy Hopping

    Happy Hopping New Member

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  2. WarrenJ

    WarrenJ Well-Known Member

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    Seems the speed limiter can be overridden by a heavy foot.

    It my be a feature that can be disabled, much like the auto stop/start feature on most cars.

    Also, mandatory fitment doesn't mean it has to be enabled at all times.
     
  3. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    I suspect it'll make zero difference, and on most cars, will be turned off permanently before it even makes it off the forecourt.

    IMO, unless the means the car uses to determine the speed the limiter should use is based on a forward facing camera and text recognition for permanent, mobile, and electronic signs it is just not going to work.

    If it relies on a map like a Satnav, then the updates must be made available for free, regardless of owner, over the internet and supported long after the model is discontinued otherwise it'll kill the second hand market. Which is never going to happen, so.

    I can think of half a dozen things that would make roads safer than an optional speed limiter.
     
  4. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Super Moderator Super Moderator

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    Still far from perfect - my Volvo has this (not a limiter, just for info) and it will often pick up on speed limit signs from side streets.
     
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  5. MLyons

    MLyons Half dev, Half doge. Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Sounds pretty dangerous if it suddenly makes you go from 70 to 40
     
  6. legoman

    legoman breaker of things

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    perfect example would be you travelling along a motorway where a bridge goes over and the bridge speed limit is 30/40mph
     
  7. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    I don't think it would, at least not from what I've read, it would reduce power until you reached 40.

    Honestly i don't see something this dumb passing, as has already been pointed out how about imported/exported cars, what about the obvious circumvention's, and technology isn't infallible.

    If a modern plane that cost £4 billion to develop can fly itself into the ground I'd be more than a little hesitant putting it in control of the speed of cars.
     
  8. MLyons

    MLyons Half dev, Half doge. Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    That's what I was thinking or a turn off on a dual carriageway.

    It being this dumb is why I can see it passing.
     
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  9. edzieba

    edzieba Virtual Realist

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    ETSC page on ISA system proposal here. Worth reading as most newspaper articles on it are bunk.
    That is exactly the means intended to be used (supplementing GPS-based speed zone maps). With the vast majority of newly sold cards already including camera arrays for driver aids, enforcing this for newer cars is not going to be a big cost bump.
    That is a concern. ACEA managed to get together to agree a common standard for eCall (vs. fragmented proprietary systems like OnStar in the US) and its possible a universal system may be adopted out of sheer lazyness (to avoid having to maintain their own mapping DB or pay licensing fees), but it's just as likely it will be tied into the existing GPS maps installed on nav systems.
     
  10. IanW

    IanW Grumpy Old Git

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    Time to invest in a "classic" car then.
     
  11. Xlog

    Xlog Active Member

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    Its one of those things that sound easy then you first think about it, bet becomes exponentially more complex as you go - recognizing speed sings is not that difficult, but then you have speed signs that apply at certain time/day/weather condition, you also have signs that imply certain speed restrictions, but those restrictions change between countries/seasons, then you have "speed sign" posters on trucks/buses/etc and lets not even start how to deal with the scope of speed restriction.
    If they go GPS route, depending on country, it can take years for maps to be updated if ever.
    Its like a "fasten your seat belt bong" - it does nothing but annoy.
     
  12. Wakka

    Wakka Yo, eat this, ya?

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    Good luck to the guys attempting to get that working on the A14... 70, 50, 40, 70, 30, 70, 50.....
     
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  13. MLyons

    MLyons Half dev, Half doge. Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Sounds like most software projects I attempt

    is it seriously that bad?
     
  14. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    I have visions of people who don't like the speed limit in their county village gathering at the road side holding up 10Mph signs. ;)
     
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  15. Wakka

    Wakka Yo, eat this, ya?

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    It was a bad road before they turned it into a multi-mile long construction site, now it's just obscene - Quite how so many HGV's manage to spontaneously combust while in a single lane roadworks area, I know not!
     
  16. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    I didn't use the A14 every day, but yes. Yes it is.

    Precisely why, on Reddit, I said that this stupid idea needs a way to turn it off completely - And that'll render it as useless as mirrors are to a white van man.

    I do wonder how it'll pan out for the second hand market. With manufacturers built-in satnavs usually going out of date the second it leaves the factory, and updates coming once or twice in the life of the vehicle, and often needing a trip to the dealer to install, second hand cars more than a few years out of production will presumably be forced to be wicked cheap. Hell, even lax first owners are likely to get caught out when roads change speed limits and they've never updated their car. Knowing how anti-update people are when it comes to updates to their phones/PC's, I dare say that mentality will also translate to their car.

    I know some cars (EG: Mister Tad's) have similar things already fitted, and adding it to all models rather than making it an option or an extra included at certain trim levels won't affect manufacturing costs (Although I'll be damned if it doesn't bump up the cost to the end user) too much, but the systems I've been reading about are all afflicted by the same problems - They read incorrectly for any number of reasons. Which means if it can't be turned off it's going to cause all kinds of havoc on the roads, and probably more accidents than it prevents.

    Eh. I think it's a "safety feature" that just won't work in practice. Legislating it doesn't make it work any better..

    When I posted on Reddit, with specifically the UK in mind, I thought;

    • Better driver training initially. What the **** is with the hazard perception test? Do people drive with blinkers on and only look straight ahead? That test must have been designed by someone who has no idea what driving looks like.
    • More frequent checks on licensed drivers. Mini-tests, if you will.
    • More and better policing to enforce the laws - Did you know tailgating is technically a fine-able offence now? Because the M6, M42, M1, etc don't.
    • Properly maintained roads. The wild changes in camber, dodging potholes, and general shabbiness of the UK roads is galling, and contributes to damaged cars that still pass the MOT
    • More stringent vehicle inspections. The MOT is a joke compared to other EU countries. The tester being unable to remove anything to check things is just absurd. Oil-dripping and being allowed to pass? What?
    • Better, more up to date, guidelines in the Highway Code. The fact that the current Highway Code stopping distances were written over twenty years ago is ridiculous.
    • Road layouts that aren't so awkward to navigate that people completely ignore the lines painted on the floor, making it impossible to use that particular piece of road without increased aggressive driving. Seriously. Roundabouts in the UK are a joke.
    would all lead to safer roads than this stupid idea.
     
  17. edzieba

    edzieba Virtual Realist

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    Hence why I posted the ISA page to clear things up: not only can the proposed system be disabled by pushing the pedal harder, it can also be disabled until the next ignition cycle (similar to Traction Control).

    The point is that the 99% who do not disable or override it will be forced to actually stick to the posted speed limit, and the handful that do will be doing so as a deliberate conscious choice.

    Besides, all those other proposals actually require proper levels of public service funding, and we all know how well that's working out.
     
  18. wuyanxu

    wuyanxu still wants Homeworld 3

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    One good thing with speed limiter is forcing people to drive at constant speed.

    Motorway phantom congestion are usually caused by people changing their speed for no good reason. But in average speed checked 50mph zones, road flow much better because everyone is keeping their eye on the speedo. Artificial limit will make sure no one drives on the motorway at 70-80mph according to their whim.

    But other side of the coin is inability to overtake safely. For example someone who unknowingly slowed down to 50mph on single lane road. You try to overtake but the numpty realises his speed drift and speeds up to speed limit. You are then stuck on the wrong side of the road unable to pull back in.


    End of the day, remember, the limiter has no control on how fast you arrive at that speed. The fun is always on the acceleration rather than absolute top speed. That's why I love driving my 110bhp EV rather than my 150bph ICE car.
     
  19. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    The mere fact that it can be disabled at all makes it utterly pointless, though. That was my point. For anything like an automated speed limiter to work to actually stop people speeding, it can't be disabled. The fact that any system like this can be disabled makes it utterly useless.

    Frankly, the only time I can see automated speed limiting systems being of any use is when the driver of the car isn't human.

    And by that point, I shouldn't imagine there'd be an actual need for it anyway.
     
  20. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Super Moderator Super Moderator

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    It's not going to prevent someone that's hell bent on blasting down a motorway at 90mph, but there's a lot more traffic that generally bobs around the limit.

    Even if you have to acknowledge and override, it can still...
    - Prevent people from speeding without realising it
    - Ease traffic flow by better regulating the speed of people who would otherwise being bouncing around ±10mph
    - Discourage continuous speeding over long distances (i.e. when you're more likely to lose concentration)
    - Discourage tailgating at high speeds

    How it eventually gets implemented on the other hand, the cynic in me expects it to somehow be all of the possible drawbacks with none of the possible positive outcomes.
     

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