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Other Games Workshop

Discussion in 'Gaming' started by [ZiiP] NaloaC, 17 Jan 2011.

  1. Almightyrastus

    Almightyrastus Rule #9

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  2. gilljoy

    gilljoy Well-Known Member

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    So guys, where do you guys get you're forgeworld stuff? Could one of you PM me some details?
     
  3. Almightyrastus

    Almightyrastus Rule #9

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    It used to be that you could get knock off FW bits from various Chinese and Russian sites but there has been a big crackdown by the owners of those places against the recasters and forgers so they're pretty hard to find now and I have no idea what the quality would be like.

    The Ali network (Alibaba and Aliexpress) used to be the place to go but, as I said, they've pretty much eliminated everything from there now. I think the GW legal team (which we all know constitute about 3/4 of the total GW staff......) must have up-armoured and sent them out a few "Oi!! Stop that" notices.
     
  4. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Well-Known Member

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    For once I would agree with them. It must be pretty galling to spend time and money making these things, then find some no name sweatshop in wherever province bought a set and is turning out knocks offs that you will never see a penny from.
     
  5. Almightyrastus

    Almightyrastus Rule #9

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    I had a couple of bits from there and they needed a fair bit of work to fix up, more so than the genuine FW parts. The resin that they used was a lot harder and as such more brittle, especially on smaller parts, on bigger lumps people have said that there was little issue.

    R&D costs for FW are never going to be as high as they are for GW parts as the casting process is soooo much cheaper as it is silicone moulds and poured or spun-cast resin rather than injection moulds which cost an unbelievable amount of money to manufacture (which is why GW is doing limited runs - a single set of moulds, once worn out are not replaced). However FW is then going to be under pressure to keep their prices high to keep things in line with the rest of the GW ranges which need the higher pricing to make the payoff.

    This was the reason that a lot of people went to the recasters and the reasons why the recasters found it so easy to rip FW off.
     
  6. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    I understand why buying from recasters is appealing, but.. I've gone off it.

    It seriously cripples re-sale, which is shitty enough in this hobby as it is. I've ended up giving away most of the recast stuff I bought to friends who weren't so fussed about re-casts as people on FB trade groups/ebay.

    And I kinda like the instructions.
     
  7. Almightyrastus

    Almightyrastus Rule #9

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    Nottingham store's birthday today. They were doing a 15 minute speed paint competition. Had to have a go:

    [​IMG]
     
  8. lilgoth89

    lilgoth89 Captin Calliope

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    [​IMG]

    Lira's dream Army...
     
  9. Cerberus90

    Cerberus90 Car Spannerer

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    That's just pornography!!!!


    In fact, I think you'll have to remove it as it could prove very dangerous, :D
     
  10. lilgoth89

    lilgoth89 Captin Calliope

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    only to peoples wallets, although i should add a disclaimer

    i accept no liability for any loss of limb / other body part that may arise once the GF / Wife / significant other finds out you spent on Titans after looking at this image XD
     
  11. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    I've planned a section of it, at least.

    Warlord, Reaver, two Warhounds. But yeah. There's a lot of toy soldier money on that table..
     
  12. ccxo

    ccxo On top of a hill

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    FW should have left 1 large gap in between the warlords/reavers at the back, it would have been interesting to see the reaction online.
     
  13. Ryu_ookami

    Ryu_ookami I write therefore I suffer.

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    Considering the price of GWS Figures I've been looking around at other gaming systems for figures I could use indoors instead of official figures that would still look the part. I've just seen these

    figures

    which I think would make amazing looking Adeptus Arbites for Necromunda
     
  14. [ZiiP] NaloaC

    [ZiiP] NaloaC Well-Known Member

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    I've been seriously tempted to pick up some of their modular terrain for use in Necromunda games. Hopefully getting another game in on Sunday.
     
  15. asura

    asura jack of all trades

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    So in a frenzy of madness, I dug out some of my old space marines - I've since bought some beekies on a whim, always thought they looked better than the Mk.8's. I played 40K and Necromunda concurrently, so they've never been next to each other for any length of time, and while red, black and blue were chilling with the ladies of the perpetually unpainted I noticed that they're basically the same size.

    Blue's an inquisitor in TDA, so that's fair enough, but red (tech) and black (damned) should surely be at least a head taller?

    So I sat down (no I didn't, I stood up) with a tape measure, and measured myself standing straight, and in the standard space-marine-squat, I lost 10cm (or 5.4%). Red looks to be about 29mm tall - add 5.4% to make him stand up straight and multiply by 64 (scale) giving us a manly, but not superhuman 195cm (6'4" and change). My ladies in a feet-at-shoulder-width-apart-stance vary between 27mm and 30mm in height - the leaders hair alone stand 8mm tall that's a 51cm mohawk!

    In power armour this guy is the same height as my brother, who's about as intimidating as a brown banana. Yes he's a hell of a lot bulkier (the marine, not my brother) and has shoulder pads to die for, but there seemed to be something lacking for a bio-enhanced-super-soldier.

    To the internets... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...he means to be continued... idiot!

    ********** Part, the second! **********​

    Now, there seems to be much debate about how tall a space marine is supposed to be – though the general consensus seems to be somewhere between seven and eight feet. Seeing as my ladies seem to vary between an equivalent of 5’10” & 6’6” that doesn’t sound too unreasonable and for the purposes of this conversation I’m going to cut straight down the middle and assume the average space marine at seven feet six inches tall. Going one step further this gives a min/max variation of six inches between the warring height factions, which is again comparable with the four inch variation of the ladies – though I’d prefer it be a five inch swing…

    Anyhoo at 1:64 scale this gives us an average miniature marine height of 35.6mm*, so call it 36 in his boots. I’m using a 5” swing from 7’1” to 7’11” because I prefer it that way, and that gives us 33.6mm to 37.6mm, again adding boots we’ll call it 34-38mm. And if you want to stick’em in a space-marine-squat it brings the variation down to 32.3-36.1mm.

    All the above make red marine equivalent to approximately 21cm or 8” shorter than our estimated shortest marine. Black’s a bit taller at 30.5mm, but he’s standing on his toes waving a skull over his head, so I’ve ignored the cheating git at this stage, though if you measure from his raised heal to his head he’s also about 29mm.

    But what does all of this mean? It means we have to squeeze an extra 3-7mm out of our marines to make them fit to the scale of the Escher gangers.

    I’ve just realised I forgot to take into account the Escher models boots when dealing with their absolute height and variance, so consider everything even more approximate than it already was… oops! idiot!

    *Naked!
     
    Last edited: 9 Aug 2015
  16. Almightyrastus

    Almightyrastus Rule #9

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    Not quite sure what I read there but I think I might have got the general idea.

    The scale that GW works to for its supposed 28mm stuff is 28mm hero scale which means that the models are nominally 28mm from base to eyes but are then often bulked up somewhat for the double-hard grrr factor.

    A safe scale to work from based on that is about 1:58.

    If you are looking at scaling up marines to what they should be according to the fluff then you should be looking at 'true-scale'. There are some kits out there that people have made in order to convert a standard GW marine to true-scale but, as is always the case, they ain't cheap and often tread that fine copyright line that GW loves to bash people with.
     
  17. asura

    asura jack of all trades

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    A brief glimpse into my head...

    I know what you mean about the double-hard grrr, the size of guns is huge, which generally leads to bigger than realistic hands - though the Escher models don't look too guilty of that particular sin, and space marines are wearing power assisted gauntlets... That said, bigger guns makes for easier identification of type on the table-top.

    You've pretty well covered Part3 for me, though I was also going to cover people who chop legs, hips & torso's and insert 0.5mm, 1mm & 1.5mm plasti-card in the various locations to make a marine which looks taller, and more in proportion. Or those using terminator legs for normal marines, and other power armour tactical dreadnought armour hybrids. So now I have... with the open interrogative conclusion that; true-scale/art-scale, are they really?

    Part 4 is going to be actual proportional measurements of both human and marine, to see how accurate these are. Yes, there are massive swings in human proportion, but I have a handy example for taking measurements from which I'll be using for the most part, with reference to standard artistic sources on proportion, 7-8 heads to total height etcetera. And yes, we have no idea what sort of effect all the implants and gubbins might have on the proportions of the subject, but for the want of any information to the contrary, I'm just going to assume that they stay constant.

    But my digital calipars are at my other work, so that'll have to wait till Thursday evening at the earliest.

    Part 5 I'll be getting the saw out and putting my modeling skills (mostly untested, so we'll presume lacking) to the test. And I'll have a hunt around to see if any of my brothers imperial guardsmen are lurking in the back of a cupboard somewhere...

    ************ Part 4 ************​

    So I'm good at my job, got everything finished by 12:30 and am pulling a 1/2 day, swung by the workshop and picked up my calipers. Gratuitous table incoming... if I can remember how to do this...

    ...That's a nope I guess... Tables anyone? I'll try and be neat.

    Dimension ________][___ Me cm___ ][___ "Ideal" Marine = (me*1.25)/64 mm ___][ ___Marine* as measured mm
    Height ---------------------------175-------------------------------------35.9-----------------------------------------31-32 (squat compensated)
    Ground to Ankle-----------------13--------------------------------------2.5------------------------------------------2.3-2.8
    Ankle to Knee-------------------41---------------------------------------7.9------------------------------------------6.5-7.2
    Knee to Hip----------------------42---------------------------------------8.3------------------------------------------7
    Hip to Collar---------------------57---------------------------------------11.1-----------------------------------------7.5-8.9
    Pit to Tip-------------------------67---------------------------------------13.1-----------------------------------------12.9

    *3 different marines measured.

    I'm going to use the median figure where I got different measurements from different marines. This gives a difference between fluff and model of:

    4.40mm overall height
    0.05mm ground to ankle
    1.05mm ankle to knee
    1.30mm knee to hip
    2.90mm hip to collar
    0.20mm pit to tip

    Now the astute among you will have noticed that (1+1.3+2.9)-4.4=0.8mm or in English, we've got an extra 0.8mm when adding up component body parts vs a top to toe measurement. This is most likely a cumulative rounding error. As we have three active components of height we'll trim 0.2mm of ankle to knee & knee to hip, and 0.4mm off hip to collar by way of compensating.

    Compensated figures:

    4.40mm overall height
    0.05mm ground to ankle
    0.85mm ankle to knee
    1.10mm knee to hip
    2.50mm hip to collar
    0.20mm pit to tip

    Now, I'm sure some (most?) of you are thinking "that's a lot of numbers" and you'd be right. I wanted to include as much of my workings as possible to keep things transparent, if a little difficult to follow. It's the conclusion that's the important bit...

    Marines arms are close to perfect as they are, the massively over-sized pauldrons can make them look a bit tyrannosaurus-rex-ish, but there's basically nothing that needs doing here. The legs are a little bit short, both in the shin and in the thigh, but that's an easy fix. The body is a good bit shorter than it should be, this with the correct arms is what gives space marines their gorilla like appearance, it's not the arms that are the problem, it's the torso. More specifically, it appears to be the lower abdomen which is way to short, but the top portion may be a bit pinched too.

    What to do? Or a plan for part 5.

    I'll be cutting with an 8/0 (that's 0.18mm thick) saw blade, and allowing 0.05mm per adhesive face (so 0.1mm per shim) therefore each shim needs to be 0.08mm thicker than if I were able to magically part the plastic/metal of the model and make an interface free bond. I think copper/aluminium would be the best bet, filing down from 1/1.5/2mm sheet as appropriate.

    There's no need to pad under the feet, the feet/ankle proportions seem pretty much spot on, yes there's variance between models that make it too big or too small, but from a collective stand point, feet and ankles don't need any modification, no need for boosters under their boots.

    The shin armour plates are a touch short - just under a millimeter - so they need cutting through and 0.93mm of sheet sticking between the two parts.

    The thigh armour plates are a bit more out, at 1.1mm it'll take 1.18mm sheet to fix.

    The torso is the biggie, a 2.5mm stretch isn't going to be easy, a lot of people stick an extra 1mm onto the already thick 1.5mm belt. However, as it's sitting at an equivalent thickness of 96mm deep I think beefing it up that much (to an equivalent 160mm) is more than a little excessive so we'll only stick in an additional 0.58mm sheet for the belt. That leaves 2mm to account for - off the top of my head, 1.6-1.75mm additional in the lower abdomen and build up 0.25-0.4mm on the very top of the torso/shoulders/neck area using 1.68-1.83mm sheet and green stuff as appropriate. This might take a bit of experimenting with.


    What have I started!
     
    Last edited: 12 Aug 2015
  18. Almightyrastus

    Almightyrastus Rule #9

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    I'll take your word on the dimensions but I will recommend that you use plasticard for the shims rather than metal.

    Sure you can get the metal shims to be more accurate but you'll have to glue flat surfaces of plastic to metal and those bonds tend not to play well with each other. Use plasticard and a thin, welding solvent type adhesive and the finished joints should be as strong as if you had not cut the leg at all. I use stuff that is normally sold in larger quantities for welding pipe sections together but I decant it into a bottle with a brush.

    This stuff
     
  19. asura

    asura jack of all trades

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    If the models I were modifying were all (or even mostly) plastic then what you're suggesting would make perfect sense. However, Most of the models I like the look of are white-metal or pre-white-metal-metal... (was it a pewter alloy? I don't know.) so surfaces will be well keyed and bonded with (probably, alternate suggestions very welcome) an epoxy polymer resin. If I had sufficient practice with the process, I'd pin all the joints, but I'm not sure I could get the second drill points, or angles accurate enough. Again anyone with practical experience or tips on this please chip in.
     
  20. Almightyrastus

    Almightyrastus Rule #9

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    Ahh ok, then yes, pins and epoxy are indeed the way forward
     

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