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Motherboards ITX Anonymous Club

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Arboreal, 11 Jun 2016.

  1. Goatee

    Goatee Multimodder

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    Im looking forward to the W1 review at OT. I think Alli has had the case for about a week.

    @MLyons did you get a W1 arranged for a review?
     
  2. MLyons

    MLyons 70% Dev, 30% Doge. DevDoge Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    We did indeed. We could have had one already but instead we should be getting a proper one in a few months with a hopefully updated SFX test bench that outputs more heat
     
  3. Parge

    Parge the worst Super Moderator

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    Get out a couple of old GTX 480's - has there ever been a hotter card?
     
  4. MLyons

    MLyons 70% Dev, 30% Doge. DevDoge Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    I want to benchmark the thing, not burn a hole through the desk with molten aluminium and plastic.
     
    Last edited: 23 Jun 2021
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  5. David

    David μoʍ ɼouმ qᴉq λon ƨbԍuq ϝʁλᴉuმ ϝo ʁԍɑq ϝμᴉƨ

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    Ali got his hands on the Dan C4...

     
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  6. Arboreal

    Arboreal Keeper of the Electric Currants

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    I saw that he had one delivered, he showed a quick unboxing on Twitch.
    No time to watch it yet at work, I gather he did a LOT of testing in many configurations.

    Been excited about it for literally years; now it's finalised, I feel a bit flat.

    TB[Brutally]H it'll be hardly any change from the M1 when used aircooled in Classic mode.

    Still may have to buy one as it will allegedly have the slogan I suggested printed on the box...
     
    Last edited: 15 Jun 2021
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  7. David

    David μoʍ ɼouმ qᴉq λon ƨbԍuq ϝʁλᴉuმ ϝo ʁԍɑq ϝμᴉƨ

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  8. Goatee

    Goatee Multimodder

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    WinterOne - The case that doesnt review well.
     
  9. David

    David μoʍ ɼouმ qᴉq λon ƨbԍuq ϝʁλᴉuმ ϝo ʁԍɑq ϝμᴉƨ

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    Indeed. I thought the criticism was pretty fair though - for that kind of money I'd expect perfection too, and the little things like not having a cutout or cross bar to tame the riser cable would gnaw at me.
     
  10. Goatee

    Goatee Multimodder

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    Completely agree, some of the feedback like the GPU mounting is supposed to already be addressed.

    But yep, its expensive and its still a rough around the edges.
     
  11. MLyons

    MLyons 70% Dev, 30% Doge. DevDoge Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    is it possible it was a review sample damaged by someone?
     
  12. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    The price is ludicrous. Holy crap. My Lian Li PC12 cost less than that ! £150 less !
     
  13. David

    David μoʍ ɼouმ qᴉq λon ƨbԍuq ϝʁλᴉuმ ϝo ʁԍɑq ϝμᴉƨ

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    You mean the bowed panels?

    The PCI backplane GPU mount appears to be a design thing, although Ben has said they're addressing that, and the difference in anodising is clearly a manufacturing thing.
     
  14. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    The case I just got was £88. With a PCIE riser included. Jonsbo. The fit and finish are perfect.

    How can they justify it being £500, even if it fitted together perfectly?
     
  15. Goatee

    Goatee Multimodder

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    The case is a review sample and LTT did have it before….

    but it should have been checked before going out. That’s a massive cock up…
     
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  16. MLyons

    MLyons 70% Dev, 30% Doge. DevDoge Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    From the sounds of it they checked it and sent along a list of things broke by linus to Ali. They didn't notice the panel tho so it may have been shipping. I'm still waiting on a NR200 competitor.
     
  17. Omnislip

    Omnislip Minimodder

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    It's volume. These boutique-y cases will never be especially cheap, because the manufacturing methods required for cheap per-unit cost require massive initial investment that is not affordable for such a niche product. You can see the Dan H20 case - similar in design to many >£200 boutique cases, is around £100 because Lian Li are stumping up for those initial costs.
     
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  18. Goatee

    Goatee Multimodder

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    [Source / Disclaimer: I backed the W1 on Kickstarter, have followed the development and so am "invested" in it. I have been in supply chain planning / management roles involving procurement, distribution and manufacturing for medical devices at both commercial (large volume) and clinical trial stages (little volume) for the last 10+ years]

    @Omnislip completely agree. To expand upon that, volume along with existing infrastructure / contacts is a key cost reduction principal in manufacturing and the fact is they (the team behind the W1) lack all this. This is how I understand the W1 is made:
    • Raw materials are sourced to make ~100 units.
    • W1 is manufactured in China, using CNC and laser cutting.
    • Bead blasting and anodising as the finishing steps.
    • Parts are then sent to the US for QC and final packaging
    • Cases are distributed globally from the US
    Every single one of those steps is highly inefficient and expensive.
    • Aluminium (and it’s alloys) is at a very high price at the moment and is significantly more expensive anyway than sheet steel used in a lot of cases.
    • Low lot size runs of a product have much higher scrap and waste.
    • Other raw materials like risers, power buttons, screws, stand-off are purchased at the same volumes (and so prices) as consumers get them at, not the trade prices big manufacturing can get.
    • Outsourced manufacturing in China is not as cheap as you might think, especially as you need to use a reputable company to stop IP theft or poor quality products
    • Packing and QC in the US (improves quality) but obviously adds costs and means any packaging (which uses biodegradable foams and cork) need to sourced locally and are so more expensive.
    • Shipping from the US to every customer individually is terrible, last mile expenses are a big part of costs.(~10%)
    • Any profit the maker needs to pay for the costs (and time) they have incurred are spread across 100 units, rather than the 1000’s of units.
    The headline price of ~£350 is a lot (incidentally I backed at ~£280 on kickstarter + ~£20 for the Gen4 upgrade ), but if you actually analyse how this may be made up, it’s understandable.

    I fully understand people may not want to pay that, when cheaper air cooling options are available, but I do think it’s a bit silly to make such a big deal of the price of a boutique watercooling case, if you are sticking a £300 water block, with a £200+ of radiators, pumps, fans and fittings on your £1400 3090 FE,
     
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  19. Omnislip

    Omnislip Minimodder

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    And on this, the OT video is really weird. This case is obviously designed for a big custom loop (big for SFF, anyway...) so what's the point in slamming it like he did for a setup it's clearly not meant for? I'd have thought someone as into the scene as he is would have shown this properly - it's a bit tedious now to see the same old Ncase, A4/sandwich, and upright/H1 layouts doing the rounds over and over again with only small tweaks.
     
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  20. Goatee

    Goatee Multimodder

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    Completely agree:

    "Essentially if you're building a custom water cooled pc with an rtx 3090 and two radiators and sparing absolutely no expense along the way this might be something that you're actually interested in." (00:21-00:23)

    "And let's be real the only way that you can really justify the price of this case is with a really high end fully water cooled system." (4:30-4:26)

    Then builds an AIO in it and calls it too expensive.

    But then I might just be a fanboi :D
     

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