Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by CardJoe, 4 Jun 2009.
I'm in agreement with xaser04 here, I don't understand Microsoft's reasoning behind this move.
Probably because Vista and Win 7 were "designed" for use with SSD. I mean its a vague statement but thats what they mentioned once in the past that it would utilize the tech better but could be one way of marketing to the newer OSes.
It's up to personal taste. I tested the newest build on a fast machine and on my subnotebook (faster than a netbook, but not a real powerhorse) and on both it felt sluggish and less responsive than XP. Even when optimized and with most of the bloat turned off or cut out, Win7 had this soft, spongy feeling. It wasn't slow, but slower than expected. Boot time was exactly two times worse than XP, 3D performance was about 7-10% worse. I don't see any advantage of using 7 over XP aside from shiny, transparent window borders which also annoy me beacause they're too thick and take too much space
hmm then I would have to question if you installed it correctly as well as setup the drivers correctly and so on, or was this on the Beta and not RC1, big difference between the two.
We have it installed at work on a crappy low-end notebook and it runs smooth and fast, as well as on one of our gaming rigs and then their is my netbook and my HTPC, all of which showed no slow down in comparisson to XP, it performed on par or faster, sure gaming isnt as up to par with XP but umm duh factor the drivers are still new and in their early developmental phase, they will only get better with time.
So ya I have to question your method of installation, version, and testing because I havent seen anything along the lines of what you mentioned at all with the exception that the game performance isnt as high but still more then decent.
I appologize for my spasm, but I think for the AVERAGE consumer, what Windows is doing is hurting both Hardware Developers (in this case) and Software / OS Developers (in others). I do not think that OS creators should restrict what devices their OS is put on.
Ok ok. So I let my emotions get the best of me.
It is true that I have not followed Windows 7, nor was I aware that there were custom drivers to get OSX to work on more then a very narrow category of parts. I do apologize.
The rant wasn't on my own behalf so much as that of the average user. I like the IDEA of a netbook. It is not a power-user's computer. But thinking about taking college classes again I'd rather carry a 10" little netbook to do classwork on then my 17" monstrosity that can almost game.
My point/confusion is actually over two main issues:
The average user is NOT going to install a different OS. (Or maybe even know HOW!) They want to open it up, turn it on, and have it work. They don't care if its the drivers, the os, or magical pink ponies inside-- as long as it works.
The second issue is that while I'm not an anti-MS zealot, I do believe that they do hamper competition sometimes. While this instance isn't pushing Linux / OSX / some-other OS out of the way for their own, this one is hurting hardware producers.
It is only one netbook. But how many more might have adapted hybrid-storage if this had been shown to be profitable? THAT'S my main beef. The hybrid solution was progressive and ingenious. (You can argue that but MSI still brought the first to market in the Netbook world AFAIK.)
You are right that no one looks at Apple this way and that its a double-standard, but its not the way things SHOULD be. People should be just as upset that Apple's OS is restricted to certain hardware, or use a "better" OS (ie: compatible with more hardware). Now I don't know the Apple vs Other OS percentages for what's on a machine in a random sample, but I'm pretty sure that's why a lot of people use Windows. For better or worse its an "industry standard".
Apple could probably do some pretty awesome stuff with their OS if they opened it up to more hardware. I get that the narrow hardware is what makes it so rock-solid, but even if you opened up just a bit more-- top end graphics cards for examples, it would catapult what they already are good at (graphic design / video editing / etc).
Linux might have a chance but they need more exposure. This is very hard for a non-profit organization. Ubuntu has the best shot here. However you would have to ship out tons of LiveCD's, and maybe set up kiosks/stores that show off just what it is and how it is. Or a commercial campaign. If they could show the public how to use Linux the way I have learned it through Glider's articles, I'm sure it'd see a fair amount of use.
Windows is by no means BAD. They didn't get on "every PC" because they sucked. Windows ME and Vista aside, they have had pretty amazing OS's. But it might be a fair bet that most of the reason they continue to dominate is simply because the gaming market is almost entirely on Windows. (WINE/Cedega, I know they exist but still... It isn't as good as playing natively on Windows in my experience.)
I'm not meaning to bash Windows or hold the hand of any other OS. Any OS that wants to compete with Windows will have a lot of work cut out, as Windows has managed to stay on top this long.
That's a lot for just a netbook but it is cool with SSD and a regular HDD
Hybrid? You really think Hybrid is going to last more than a year or two? SSD prices are constantly falling, as are HD prices, what's more, more and more devices are constantly connected, some netbooks come with 3G cards, and more and more companies are offering online storage, such as Asus, when you buy their netbooks which more or less axes the problem of storage. Flash drives are also getting ridiculously big, you can buy 32Gbs one for cheap.
Hybrid storage, while neat, won't last very long, it's more of a temporary holdover while prices for SSDs and size increases, in a year, or less, you'll see netbooks with much larger SSDs for the same price as current models.
So 1 model can't get XP, boo hoo. There are tons more out there that do have XP and are small. To take your argument though, your average consumer most likely doesn't even know what hybrid storage is, and if they do, they most likely don't even care for it.
As for Microsoft impeding competition.. that's quite the opposite, MS give you full reign on the OS to install whatever pleases you, you can even install stuff that probably isn't supported by the OS, but you're free to try anyways. You can go through every setting, every registry key, everything in the OS (cept the source code obviously).
They generally also support a wide variety of technologies whether it be software, hardware, cross-OS, networking, etc. If you look at Windows 7, it even supports a REALLY large variety of hardware straight out of the box. All of their products are built with as wide as an availability and compatibility as possible without reducing the experience offered drastically.
If MS denied the hybrid storage, it was likely for good reasons. And if they didn't, then oh well, Windows 7 is coming October anyways, so unless someone was desperate for that 1 MSI netbook, they can probably wait or get something else with XP and a 10" or smaller screen.
And I don't agree on calling Vista bad, but that's a different topic.
The problem with Linux is that it's not always very user friendly and the driver support sometimes just isn't there, and people just prefer Windows. Don't get me wrong, it's a great OS, just people are sometimes too stupid to be able to use it. Why do you think OSX is so popular? Heh.
As for gaming.. well, native DirectX. Nuff' said I think. And yea, Linux can do DirectX, but not quite to the same level as Windows and def not across the same large amount of hardware (yes, I know it's a driver thing, but the point stands).
Apple don't want to open up, they want to be a "premium" line of computers with their noses in the air.
Anyways.. kinda getting tired of this.
dunno if this was mentioned but why not just buy a linux notebook with the specs you want.. install whatever os you want.. it's not like they're stopping you from installing any version you want.. affects the bundles
and they are starting june 1st (just from memory correct me if I'm wrong) they are offering free upgrades to win 7 for any new computer bundled with vista.. not a bad deal really when you think about it- I'd rather get that bundle than xp right now
The full version of windows 7? or just the RC/beta?
Full Windows 7
Sounds like a pretty sweet deal
I have a Asus 10 netbook. Xp ran so slow it took two to three minutes to boot. Then once it was up it did not load anything in a reasonable time, and did not play video well at all.
I installed Xubuntu (mini Ubuntu) on it. It boots in about 20 seconds, loads programs as fast as any fast desktop, and has the cpu power to play video perfectly.
I suggest forgetting about having any windows OS on these netbooks.
I just say do them with Ubuntu MID or Netbook Remix and save on the licensing const for XP Home...
edit -not a derailment- any one tried putting linux on an Acer Aspire One? Mom was looking at one, and liked it compared to the others (Dell, HP, Asus, etc...) but trying to load flash was horrifically slow. She wants something small, capable of running youtube or possibly bluray vids with little/no lag... any suggestions
Umm, some of the models do come with linux (I'm typing this on a pre-installed linux aspire one right now), though I don't know if they still offer them. It's nothing special, just a drastically reduced functionality install, but it does what it says on the tin (and even comes with a couple games).
As for windows on a netbook, this same aspire one handled vista ultimate without any issue (and it actually worked better with aero turned on). Unfortunately I only installed it as a trial install, so it didn't last very long (hence why I'm on linux again). But while it was on here, it was snappy as anything (on an 8gig SSD of all things) with loading programs, but saving files was horrifically slow (due to the SSD).
To the original article, I think it all a bit silly. Really, what financial benefit would this be to anybody, ever, under any circumstances? I just cannot fathom the financial benefit this could ever be linked with.
That's the Wind netbook product manager, Diana. Say Hi, she reads this.
Thanks for the update - I'll have to ask Lenovo is they have to discontinue their product too.
this is outrageous, I really really hope all of these company's start sticking it to Microsoft and using Linux I know I will not buy a windows based net book because of this practice...
The most obvious difference here is that Apple sell their own hardware and OS as a package and hence can be more controlling on what setups it will run on (in this case nothing bar a system with a Apple logo). Microsoft on the other hand only sell the OS. If this was about a microsoft laptop with a certain OS you would have a point but its not, its microsoft dictating to a third party what they can and cannot install their OS on, it doesn't make sense (why would they care, a sale is a sale? I could understand it if windows 7 was already out and they were trying to push that but it isn't).
But you can reject Microsoft's EULA, format HDD, get refund and install whatever OS you wish, can't you? At least if it has driver support...
I would like to know those "good reasons". Hybrid storage might be a temporary(maybe 2 years?) solution but it seems to be really interesting and useful thing right now.
The reason for this is if you look at it from the other side.
Netbooks are cheap (well, they're suppost to be anyway), so the OS has to be cheap. Microsoft doesn't want people with £2,000 rigs sticking on the cheapest OS, so they cripple it for us.
In the words of a certain Russian cat.... "simpols"
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