News Microsoft proposes browser ballots

Really? Almost everyone I know uses IE and I never hear them complaining about wanting to change it for anything else. Part of this is probably ignorance (probably never heard of FireFox/Chrome/..) but I think people are generally happy with what they have.

Unfortunately, the way the net has evolved, IE has always been a dominant force and as such it is *the* browser that web developers hack their sites to work in - often at the expense of W3C standards and cross browser compatability, but that is just the way it is. If suddenly people are faced with a choice and end up installing the wrong one, when half the scripts on TwitMyFaceTube don't work and they can no longer do what they used to do, how exactly are they benefiting? People like things to just work, and IE does. It may not be your browser of choice, but you're not the average user.

QFT.

 

You sir win the thread.

 

You're not wrong. As a web designer for a tech company with industrial clients, about 70% of our traffic is from users on IE6 or IE7. In the corporate world, IE is the given default.

Many of those users can't change, even though they want to, because of company-wide restrictions on browser choice. It's pretty apparent, though, that a lot of them probably aren't very aware of the alternatives. Take this statistic: nearly half of our traffic is from users running resolutions of 1024x768 or below. Most monitors from the last 8 years or so have supported higher resolutions, so these are mostly people who probably have not realised that they can change their desktop resolutions. The world is full of users like this, who, if they cannot change their desktop resolution, are almost certainly not interested in the alternative web browsers available.

 

The EU never demanded that MS remove IE from windows. All they wanted was for MS to provide alternatives - something MS have already done in Vista SP2. What MS did with Win7 and the 'no browser edition' was the corporate equivalent of throwing your toys out of the pram. MS responded in a very immature manner, and is only now beginning to see sense.

As a side note: not a single dollar sign in sight so far in this thread! Well done guys!

 

M$!

I feel so clever and witty.

 

Don't forget freetards! Linux sux! Mac sux! M$ ho ho ho.

Ok think we got them all out of the way there, back to the useful discussion now.

 

Greetings!

Windows doesnt need a browser to access Windows Update.
Internet Explorer could be downloaded in WU.

True. Which makes the article at BitTech erronous and partial:

Also, Link to this thread is missing on the article.

 

as long as it has FF, im happy with it

 

Thinking about it, the EU could push further, if they can do it with web browsers, what's to stop them from doing it with regards to media players, remember, Windows ships with Windows Media Player, and in most cases, Windows Movie Maker *facepalm*

Oh, and they need to Chase Apple too, because Apple have safari, oh, and that's not all, Google, my HTC Hero which is Android powered came with a browser which i asume is Chrome, oh where will it end?

Sam

 

Greetings!

Thats a good idea, actually.
Media Player Classic > Windows Media Player

"They" will. Once Apple manages to take above 80% of the OS market.

 

What's not clear to me is: will the end user be forced to choose or will OEMs choose for them?
If the latter is permitted, will existing 'commercial relationships' influence the choice of browser those OEMs make?
We could end up in the same laughable situation as we had with the WinXP 'N' Editions.
I'm sure the EU Commission is well aware of this, but how can they stop OEMs effectively preventing end-users from choosing?

 

Why is there a difference between Windows and OSX? It shouldn't matter how big the market share is. Unfair competition policy is unfair competition policy.

And didn't MS get rid of most of the useless apps like Movie Maker and offer them as Windows Live Whatever as DLC?

 

Greetings!

Basic competitive legislation:
You cant force your predominance in a given market (OS) to gain advantage in another market (Browser).
OSX is a non-issue, since its market share is diminute.

 

I don't think opera would have wined if it didn't benefit them

The EU government and EU lawyers beg to differ *points at them licking their thumbs as they count tons of money*

+1 true

 

what i dont get is everyone in the EU want a simple computer that works so what the f**k is the EU goin on about! so what m$ are rake in the dolla! woopty doo! just proves one point, that there OS with IE works!!!!! the EU needs to sort its own problems instead of complaining about a poxy web browser! i live in the UK and i will certainly import win7 form the US cause they will get the full package! so i will have a copy from there! its not hard i have friends over there! this is realy a wast of time cause im probably not goin to be the only one that will do this!

 

Microsoft shouldn't even have to take IE off the OS, Apple doesn't have too but Microsoft has too. It's SOOOOOOO DUMB

If someone wants to use Firefox, they'll download it

 

I'm happy to see others note that the unbundling of the IE interface is a pre-emptive decision by MS, if anyone can link to the supposed EC ruling I'd be more than happy to read it.

IE interface ? Since Win 98, and arguably Win95 that iirc originally shipped without a browser, the core IE technologies have been embedded in the operating system, I hazard the guess that Win 7 is much the same. The decision to ship without an IE interface and remove the ability to upgrade from previous operating systems must therefore be seen a political one designed to maximise public outcry.

The problem comes when a major supplier uses one technology to leverage the uptake of some other technology, the ultimate aim is to limit competition and gain dominance of the market. Once the second technology gains dominance it is time to move to a third then forth technology until market dominance is absolute. This is the threat of monopolies.

In the MS world you start Windows and from the list of approved applications you play your approved media through an interface that supports the approved DRM, non-approved media has not been signed leaving no option to play it. Perhaps you launch IE which opens the default page of the approved channel, all searches go through Bling and of course return approved results, all external applications conform to .NET, Silverlight is the only media player available, all your mail has passed trough MS servers and the default media channel is MSNBC. Time for relaxation, switch on your approved console or download an approved game, or possibly movie, from GFWL.

This is the full on tin foil hat scenario but it is also the dream world of some corporations and some politicians. The PC and the internet have given us access to the largest amount of media and information we have ever known, the greatest freedom to create and exchange we have ever known and the greatest freedom to interact and discuss, sometimes controversial, ideas we have ever known. Step back for a moment and consider the possible futures

 

Eurgh what a waste of time and money (Well thats the EU commission in general but I digress).

Those who wish to try a different browser either already have done so, or, would do so anyway. Those who wish to just browse the web will automatically choose Internet explorer because they know it just works (or simply don't care that there are alternative because they don't offer anything that IE can't already do).

So what the EU have done here is make no sodding difference what-so-ever apart from making things more confusing for the average user., typical political/red tape BS.

 

It's impressive how MS has spun this to make them look like victims. The amount of people in support of MS in this thread goes to show, if you take an EU demand to 'give people a choice of browser' and spin it to say 'remove your browser from your OS and make it difficult and/or confusing for consumers' the amount of positive PR generated, essentially for free.

Way to go, MS.

 

It is not so simple, the problem here is that MS have two choises. 1. remove IE from their OS or 2. ad their competitors browsers to the OS.
The problem with number two is that it is simply free PR for his own competitor, one thing NO company wants to do, imagine if Nvidia had to add a flyer from ATI in every card they sell, or if STEAM had to have a little "experience Windows Live" poster running in STEAM.
Simply the same as a commercial suiside.