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Displays Monitor recommendations

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by AllNight, 12 Jul 2010.

  1. AllNight

    AllNight New Member

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    I've had alot of help here for my new pc build, thanks for that!
    Now I'm looking for a nice monitor to go with that pc.
    The graphics card is a HD5870.
    Budget is 300~400 euro (400 only if it's worth it).
    Monitor is for gaming purpose.

    Currently I'm looking at:

    HP ZR24w
    Samsung XL2370
    Samsung BX2470
    Samsung P2450H

    Thanks alot in advance!
     
  2. Carper

    Carper Guru

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    dell and nec are good have a look at some of them
     
  3. AllNight

    AllNight New Member

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  4. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    Avoid Samsung, they are no good.

    Check out this monitor comparison sheet, you have everything in full details to make teh best choice. Be sure to check reviews first before purchasing. All monitor mentioned are highly well reviews and recommended by many users here.

    Be sure to get an IPS panel to get amazing color with true 8-bit color support, and 178 degree view angle, no-glossy, and higher grade LCD used for very nice colors.

    HTML: http://www.helpweaver.com/monitor/monitor comparison.htm
    Excel: http://www.helpweaver.com/monitor/monitor comparison.xlsx

    Be sure to check out the tabs at the bottom, to get more information on some feature, panel type technologies, and their up and downs.

    I hope this helps, as it helped many. I keep updating it, if you wonder. As you notice it still some work on the 22inch area and 27+ inch.
     
    chrisb2e9 likes this.
  5. AllNight

    AllNight New Member

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    The thing that keeps me from buying an IPS (the HP, the Dell seems a bit too expensive) is the responsiveness and imput lag. I might get into serious online play again (which I did before with some other games) and isn't an IPS panel too slow then?
    Thanks for posting the comparison sheet, I already saw it in other threads. I should've mentioned that in the OP.
    So if the responsiveness and imput lagg aren't problems a nice IPS panel would be perfect.
    I have almost no possibility to check the screens IRL so I have to rely on experts on this forum.

    Thanks for the replies!
     
  6. The_Beast

    The_Beast I like wood ಠ_ಠ

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    I've never noticed any kind of ghosting on my IPS panel while playing games
     
  7. Draksis

    Draksis New Member

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    Oh? how so? I been running a Samsung XL2370 last few months, and it runs perfect, no problems what so ever.

    Yes, true, it was a bit on the expensive side, but then again it not something you replace every 8 - 12 months. :thumb:
     
  8. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

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    Only really useful if you understand the parameters listed. For instance, unless you understand you'll just look for the biggest or smallest numbers and assume it's the best... but for gaming, % of Adobe RGB coverage? Irrelevant. Contrast ratios? All those figures are nonsense anyway. I've never seen a panel with a 1000:1 contrast ratio... ever... even £3000 monitors... never. Dynamic contrast ratios of 80K:1? LOL... likewise. These are just manufacturer's specs and not measured actuals.



    Personally, I'd avoid a IPS as all the ones you can afford suffer from input lag consistently higher than equivalently priced VA or TN panels. As this will be a gaming monitor, this should be a factor to seriously consider. The only IPS panel of this size suitable is the Dell U2410 in it's "gaming mode", but that is out of your price range.


    Personally, if it JUST for gaming, I'd go for a Dell SP2309. Good size, good resolution, colours are perfectly adequate for gaming. It's a fast panel with excellent grey to grey times, and absolutely NO input lag. Black levels are beyond compare for a monitor in this price range also, which is a BIG advantage in dark gaming sequences.

    And it's cheap. Win!

    Seriously.. forget about e-peen. If you want to game only, you don't need a IPS panel with a massive gamut and eye searing brightness/contrast levels. If it will be just you sitting directly in front of it playing games... the 2309 is a good choice.
     
  9. Threefiguremini

    Threefiguremini New Member

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    Another vote for Dell here. I've got the SP2309 and love it!
     
  10. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    That is because you got the super duper high end models. And wait and see their RMA service. You'll think you'll dial a wrong number. All they say is "Yea, what'you want?", no one on different call can say "Samsung RMA service, how can I help you?" or something along that line. As for customer service, anything you ask you get: "HHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!" like if you bother them. And beside all that they STILL manage to get the whole thing wrong. You end up with a big downgrade, and you had to wait for 2 months to get anything. Plus they ask for your credit card information and all that so that they can charge you, if the monitor they have did not come. YOU Have to pay full shipping (try shipping a 24inch, and the error monitor back..)


    It's fairly explanatory. The comparison table is not aimed at the average Joe you know nothing about anything. It's design to offer HELP to this community. I am always open to answer any questions that a person may have. Again, I say it times and time again, on my post AND on the document itself, to READ REVIEWS FIRST.

    If you enjoy great color while you play, this is something to look for. I provide the maximum information I can provide, so that a user can decide what he/she wants or doesn't.

    It's not a review. It compare specification. How can I do a review on a monitor I don't have. If you are willing to purchase for me the equipment and all the monitor to the list and any monitor that might come out which is interesting, go ahead!


    Descent PVA have a higher input lag and response time than any other panel and are more expensive for what you get. MVA is discontinued by BenQ. They don't exists anymore. And the other standard.. well you better just get a TN panel as they are not worth the money for what you get (mildly better (not noticeable) than a TN panel, and a much higher price).

    I play play FPS just fine under Adobe RGB color profile. You don't notice the input lag.


    Soo you are buying a 2000$ computer, and you slim out on the MOST important part of the computer. Riiight... It's like buying a super 5 000$ computer and put MS-DOS on it... like wtf?! What's the point of all this if your not using it, let alone view graphics properly, to even begin with, something that several decade ago a system can?!
    It's not like 8-bit colors is anything new here... our FIRST color CRT monitors (yea the big bulky ones, with the tube) were MASSIVELY better than today's TN panel and were cheaper as well (don't talk about flickering... because they are none at 85Hz which is no problem unless you go under a too screen resolution.. at which point you should have looked like a the monitor specs).


    Eye searing?! Riight, not everyone live in a Batcave-look-a-like, like you. Even my U2410 I need to increase the brightness as it's next to the Windows, during the day.
     
    Last edited: 13 Jul 2010
  11. AllNight

    AllNight New Member

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    I also found the Dell U2311H but it seems to be bad supply in my country. I would be prepared to stretch to the U2410 if it was really worth it (for example if it's the only IPS with game decent imput lag and responsiveness etc.) but you have to set a budget limit somewhere.
    The bad part is that I can't compare screens IRL, there's almost no possibility. Not alot of stores sell IPS panels.
    If the imput lag and ghosting performance are sufficient for hardcore gaming I would get an IPS but people say different things.
    Some even recommend the 120Hz screens. I'm not into using 3D so they seem to be a waste.

    You see it's a hard choice for me.
     
  12. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    This is my opinion on the mater:
    1- Early IPS/PVA has sever input lag and ghosting issue... there is no denying. Both panel technology, and especially IPS ones came a very long way where it's much lower. Of course, it's is best to READ review to see how much input lag we are talking about for a specific model and what feature it has (if needed) to boost this (ie: does it have a Movie or Game mode?!). It is IMPORTANT to view several reviews on that mater.. as some might perform the test correctly. And from there you make an average. 30ms input lag average (not in game mode) is VERY good. It's close to TN panel's.

    2- Blame on the wrong thing. So many hardcore gamers blame their sucky-ness in game to something.. the keyboard, the mouse, their monitor, their PC, their internet... etc.. It's NEVER themselves, or their lack of practice, or simply not being good at a certain game (everyone's different, some excel at Math, other not so much). I would agree when we compare with 8$ keyboard/mouse and all that. But when purchasing a kick-ass expensive device, greatly well reviewed, and STILL complain to a point of trashing such device... then we have a problem.
    It is important to separate those people from an actual issue.

    3- Take time to adapt. When we switch keyboard/mouse/monitor it takes time to adapt.
    Usually TN panel users that goes to a fully calibrated IPS panel, will find that an IPS panel has over saturated colors. But take the same panel, compare it to a CRT or to one who is used to true 8-bit vivid (not saturated) colors, then they'll see that everything is fine.
    Obviously, these TN panel user that does the jump does get used to it, especially after comparing real life and pictures taking with a descent digital camera viewed on their screen. Now this is for color accuracy. FOr keyboards for instance, the keys are not exactly the same as your old keyboard which you got used to for 5 or so years, so it's normal that if you play a game, you can't find your keys and not used to the key feels and all that...

    4- 120Hz claim.. this is marketing B.S. For TV's you need content send in 120Hz to actually use it, so you waist you money as they are none. But it looks sooo cool on that Manufacture made special DVD that demonstrate the 120Hz and compares it to a worsen 60Hz..
    120Hz 3D Ready monitor are very nice, in the sense that they will provide nothing other than having the ability to output faster images, to show 2 different image and give you the sense of 3D (works very well), but the colors are deeply wrong as they are designed to put the 3D glasses which performs a sun glasses effect of sort when turn on.

    Some people claim "smoother" image, less flickering. I claim your old monitor has a terrible CFL lamp that flicker or terrible transformer, or the transformer aged and now finished.

    So that is my opinion. Of course sometime they are exception, as we are all different, but this is not very common.
     
  13. AllNight

    AllNight New Member

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    So IPS' are worth it in your opinion. Because the colors are better and the panel restrictions aren't a problem. By the way, what does matter most, imput lag or ghosting (for gamers).
     
  14. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

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    All I'm saying is that those figures are just off a manufacturer's spec sheet, and in reality, no monitor will exhibit such contrast ratios. Even great panels like the U2410/U2711 only reach 800:1, and when profiled, this will inevitably drop to a more realistic 300:1.


    You miss my point. Sources designed for standard gamut screens, such as DVDs, games, web sites etc, will appear overly vivid and inaccurate on a wide gamut panel unless profiled. This is why recently, manufacturers of high gamut screens like Dell as an example, have started to include preset, pre-calibrated sRGB profiles. They recognise that narrow gamut sources appear false and over saturated on a wide gamut panel. Why else would you need a sRGB profile? If everything looked great, why limit the colourspace? I appreciate that you find no problems (as we have had this conversation many times as I recall), but the fact remains, colours of sRGB sources WILL be inaccurately rendered on a wide gamut panel unless it's correctly calibrated. This... is a fact.


    I appreciate it's not a review, nor was I trying to belittle the work you have done. I was merely pointing out that manufacturer's claims for contrast ratios are always grossly exaggerated, and usually measured at settings that no sane person would run in real life.

    The same with response times. As some manufacturers list grey to grey times, and some list black to black, and there isn't even an established standard by which these figures are measured anyway.

    Despite being an enthusiast forum, I would still question whether more than half of everyone reading this thread fully understand the implications of gamut width, and whether it actually is an advantage to them.




    VA panels don't inherently have higher input lag times than any other type of panel. The panel technology isn't what determines input lag times... it's nothing to do with the panel at all. It's the electronics that drive it, and how aggressively overdrive is employed usually. Other factors like up-scaling, pull down of frame rates etc that are dealt with by the electronics and are also a big factor in input lag times. The reason I mention that ISP panels in his price range have high lag times isn't because they are IPS... they just do as a result of the design of the input electronics that drive them. I did also mention that the U2410 has good response times in game mode.

    This is an argument that has been raging for a long time. Whether you notice the lag personally isn't the issue. People insist they can, and that the 50ms lag of the U2410 would realistically mean a 2 to 3 frame delay from input to screen. You not noticing it doesn't mean it's not there.



    Why are you slimming out if you buy a monitor that is designed for the purpose you built the machine for? The OP states quite clearly that he will be gaming primarily. Why would he need a IPS panel? Would he be "slimming out" if he also neglected to include a water cooling set up, or a massive RAID5 disk array? No... because he doesn't need it. Colour accuracy is not determined by panel type, and there are many TN panels out there that are incredibly accurate. The disadvantage with TN panels is narrower viewing angles, and narrower gamut (although back lighting plays the biggest role in gamut, not the panel itself). If someone only requires a monitor for gaming, then why would he/she spend 3 times as much as they need to for something that will not really benefit them? The games will be designed for a sRGB colour space anyway, so what exactly would he be gaining? As for viewing angles, it's a personal choice. If it's only yourself sat directly in front of a screen, and no one else needs to be sharing it with you, what does it matter if the viewing angle is 180 degrees, or 150?


    I'm just being realistic, and trying to save the guy some money. You don't need a high end IPS screen to game.


    LOL.. who mentioned turning the "brightness" up? Fact is, a 1000:1 contrast ratio WILL be eye searing, if you're watching a predominantly dark movie and suddenly get assaulted by a very bright scene. Despite what the Dell specs say, I'd be surprised if in reality, you're seeing more than a 600:1 contrast ratio. Those figures they list are useless.

    FYI: My monitor is directly in front of my window.


    You really need to work on being less defensive you know. ;)



    Both. Panel response times, and input lag. The lower these two are the better the gaming experience.

    The colours are not necessarily better on a IPS screen. The RANGE of colours is however, but what few people understand is viewing narrow gamut, unmanaged sources like games, web sites and DVDs on a wide gamut screen will actually result in inaccurate colours unless it's calibrated properly with a colorimeter (or it has a preset sRGB profile).

    You'll be paying for something that will not really give you any advantage if all you want to do is game. It depends if you're one of these people who think MORE colour is better and turn up the colour on their TVs until grass is neon green and everyone looks like they've had a spray tan. This can, and almost certainly will happen on a un-calibrated IPS screen viewing sRGB sources unless the application is colour managed. It's a personal thing, but call me old fashioned if you want - I prefer accuracy.

    You can always buy a wide gamut screen AND a color profiling device, but then you really are wasting your money for gaming.
     
    Last edited: 13 Jul 2010
  15. Carper

    Carper Guru

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    Anyone know a good website that review monitors? Lets be honest bit tech isnt the best.
     
  16. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

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  17. CrapBag

    CrapBag Well-Known Member

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    Just bought the HP ZR24W and apart from its pretty bad back light bleed in the bottom left hand corner it has stunned me with its colours 9just getting it RMA'd now and hopefully the replacement will be better).

    Its an IPS panel and I have yet to notice any input lag, I play BF2 virtually everyday and there is no difference in my game play whatsoever. I can still line and snipe in a millisecond so I fail to see any issue of input lag with this particular monitor.
     
  18. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

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    Like I said, it's a personal thing. Like you, I notice none with mine, which technically, is terrible for input lag. However, there are people out there who are absolutely adamant that they can tell the difference, so my advice is, if at all possible, game on a known low lag screen, then a known high lag screen and see if it bothers you. Should this not be possible, and you are not sure whether it bothers you, play safe, and get the lowest input lag screen you can within your chosen monitor type.

    But if someone's chosen intent is gaming, you must see the logic in recommending screens with low input lag.
     
  19. AllNight

    AllNight New Member

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  20. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

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    That probably explains why Crap Bag can't notice any lag then LOL. 10ms is good. Like I said, not all IPS screens are high lag... it's nothing to do with the panel type. All I said was pretty much all the IPS screens in your price range do (although I don't have encyclopaedic knowledge of every IPS panel sub-£400).. but that's not because they're IPS.

    The U2410 has good lag times, and as you've just found out, so does the HP panel, but both are outside your price range. If you were to push to afford it, you need to ask yourself why? IPS? Viewing angles? IPS offers no real advanatge to casual and gaming use other than viewing angles. IPS is inherently no more accurate in terms of colour than a decent VA, and some TN panels. Some of the highest regarded, professional 24" panels, including the venerable Eizo CG241W and CG242W use P-VA panels.

    Viewing angles are massively improved with IPS though, so consider whether this is important.

    IPS screens aren't inherently more accurate than VA or TN. For casual or gaming use I'd be more concerned with colour accuracy out of the box, as you won't be profiling it. Out of the box the HP ZR24W is actually pretty bad - with a delta-E max of 4.8, colours would be noticeably inaccurate when compared to a well profiled monitor of ANY type.

    [edit]

    Another feature of high end IPS panels is the wide gamut - beware, this can result in hyper real, over saturated colours when viewing non-profiled, sRGB sources such as websites.

    I can not recommend a IPS panel without also recommending you profile it. As I said earlier... it depends if you like that sort of thing. Lots of people also have their TV colour way too high. That's not accurate either... but they seem to like it.
     
    Last edited: 13 Jul 2010

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