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LOL *NSFW* *The new Demote thread*

Discussion in 'General' started by adam_bagpuss, 8 Jul 2011.

  1. KidMod-Southpaw

    KidMod-Southpaw Super Spamming Saiyan

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    Men play games, women play games. Why either group still feels they're special, or deserve extra recognition because they belong in either group is far beyond me. Play your games, and do just that. Get on with it please.

    And Anita Sarkeesian is best not to mention, because she is exactly what Neil has said.
     
  2. Pliqu3011

    Pliqu3011 all flowers in time bend towards the sun

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    You do realize you're generalizing the tastes of quite a large group of people here, I hope.

    I don't see why asking for more good female characters in games is unreasonable. Yes, the comic manages to name a few of them, but if you're already including characters like Chell (who is a mute blank character to project yourself on*), and Amaterasu (who happens to be a female god, but in the game is mainly just a magical wolf) just to fill the list, that really says a lot TBH.
    (* would you really call Gordon Freeman a "strong male character"?)

    What is the point this comic is trying to make?
    Some random girl wishes for more good female characters... What's wrong with that? God forbid she has an opinion different from yours and dares to share it! And her point is then "refuted" by listing a few of them? This reasoning reminds me of the old "smoking doesn't kill because my grandfather smokes like a chimney and is 90 years old!"-argument. As if that wasn't enough, there's also a "if you don't like it then make something yourself"-argument, which is basically a nonsensical counter against any kind of criticism.
    The ridiculous "calling rape"-strawman at the end just tops it off, as if just asking for better characters has anything to do with that (or with being a fan of Anita Sarkeesian as you imply). I should make a bingo card or something.

    If there really are valid arguments against asking for good female characters in games, this comic most certainly doesn't contain any of them.

    To get back to your comment again:
    (1) Women supposedly prefer to play casual games
    (2) Most games are aimed at men, and good female characters are a rarity (as shown - ironically - by your comic)
    What if, suppose, these two are connected in a way?
    What if... we put "because" between (1) and (2), wouldn't that make sense? (*cue gasps*)

    Discussion around the above is probably too off-topic for this thread, but please do explain to me: how is merely asking for more good female characters in any way an unreasonable demand? How can asking for good characters on the whole be an unreasonable demand?
     
    Last edited: 7 Sep 2014
    Nexxo likes this.
  3. workingclass

    workingclass What's a Dremel?

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    I think you should mind the line in the sand mate. While personally I don't mind her and did quite enjoy, although not agree with, her one show I've seen, anything discussing rape as a weapon from either genders perspective is over that line.

    You might not agree with her or even like her, but thankfully we live in a world where we can ignore people we don't like, before something sinister is drawn out in ourselves.

    How she has gathered so much attention for having an opinion is way beyond me, who cares ?!? She has an opinion on the connection between women and games. Good for her. Her being threatened and abused for it is the demote of the month.

    As far as I've seen, the people most angered by her, are well below what should be socially acceptable intelligence and should be locked up somewhere until they are deemed mentally capable of reading things on the internet they don't agree with, without flying into a rage.

    If she lies or is falsifying claims, who cares ? If she isn't, who cares ? A person on the internet telling lies ?!? What has the world come to...

    As far as I can tell, she does opinion pieces. Pretty much the same as almost all the posts you've ever made on the internet ever, but with a larger audience. She is articulate and has opinions. I wish there were more people on the internet like that.
     
  4. KidMod-Southpaw

    KidMod-Southpaw Super Spamming Saiyan

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    I think that's just it though. People wouldn't care so much about her campaign being false if it hadn't gained so much ground. Especially not considering she got about 150K to start it off.

    Also, girl gamers? The way I see it you're a gamer. If you want to help peterb gender bias then that probably helps. :p
     
  5. workingclass

    workingclass What's a Dremel?

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  6. Beasteh

    Beasteh What's a Dremel?

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    Amen.

    It doesn't help that women in the biz have to put up with death and rape threats. Is it any wonder that women say "**** this ****" and quit the industry when faced with this sort of abuse? When dev houses are mostly full of guys, it's not surprising that games are made to appeal to the same kind of people.

    I also find the idea that men wouldn't play as a woman laughable. Poor little gamers feeling emasculated because they can't play as a dude? Hilarious.
     
  7. KidMod-Southpaw

    KidMod-Southpaw Super Spamming Saiyan

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    As far as I know she's generally cherry picked scenes from games. Most notably one of the Hitman scenes where in every other playthrough, people avoid showing violence towards the female dancers in the changing rooms and sneak past them because that's what you're supposed to do, but her scene shows someone going out to kill them.

    I understand that still means the option is there to present violence, but surely that's not a valid point for her to say that this is what makes gamers violent?
     
  8. workingclass

    workingclass What's a Dremel?

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    The very name of her pieces suggests that she will cherry pick scenes.

    That same thing made me go a little "wut". She was looking at games I'd played and showed scenes I never got to see, since I usually kill "bad guys" in games. As I've stated before, I didn't agree with most of her piece, but that's fine. It was still informative and made a point, just one that I don't agree with for most of the examples she displayed.

    Also, I've not heard her say that games (with violence) makes gamers violent. I may have missed it, since I don't really go out of my way to see her shows, but that would be a rather uninformed thing to say, since violent crimes are in steady decline, and yet games have never been more popular.

    What I understood from what she says, is that the games industry is using stereotypical types of women and situations for them to enforce a way of thinking. It's a valid point, but I don't agree with it. Or I should say, I agree with it, but I feel that both men and women get this treatment. It's not exclusive to women.

    Both men and women are objectified intensely by all forms of media. This has been the case for quite some time. The genders are displayed differently but in some ways this is because the genders are affected in a sexual way by different things. In very general terms, men respond to curves and light clothing, while women respond to muscles or certain behavior. Both of these types are massively overused in all media.

    In some ways, I think she misses the point of women displayed as victims in media in general. It's made that way to elicit a response in the player or the viewer, so to more easily elicit a hero or savior response in the player or the viewer to root for the hero.

    Rape and/or torture on beings we see as more fragile, as women are, will evoke an emotional response. If you're normal it would be anger towards the abuser, if you're not I don't know what you'd feel, and this response is used to attach us emotionally to the characters we play or see in games and other media.

    Personally I don't mind, and sometimes really enjoy being the hero in a bleak world (The Witcher for example), where even if many of the women are helpless, so are the men, and the whole land in many ways, which allows me to be the hero and save the day against all forms of evil. Even rape and domestic violence.

    Long enough.... sorry for this long text of ponderings.
     
  9. KidMod-Southpaw

    KidMod-Southpaw Super Spamming Saiyan

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    I totally agree, don't get me wrong. But at the end of the day, as bad as it may seem, I'm of the voice that people should just get on with what they enjoy. You like gaming? Great, enjoy the parts of gaming that you enjoy, and let other people do the same.
     
  10. loftie

    loftie Modder

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    I never understand why people must have more female leads in games, or the fact that they feel they can demand them. If I'm writing a story with a male lead, do I now have to change it to female lead to be P.C.? Why can't I design the story I want with the characters I choose? IMO the story and the characters are what make the games/films/books we enjoy. The same could be said in reverse, someone who designs a game with a female lead shouldn't be pressurised to make the lead male. It's their story, let them tell it how they want.

    A lot of people in the media spotlight receive abuse and death threats. Is it terrible? Yes. Does it make these women any different from anyone else? No.

    There are enough youtube videos out there to explain the other side of the argument when it comes to Anita. And for note, that comic that was posted was drawn by a woman, which I believe when referring to the rape part was trying to demonstrate her willingness to cry foul when someone doesn't agree with her etc.

    Edit: In case people think I don't want women in stories, that's not the case. I just don't see why we feel people they have a right to change someone choices in creating a story because they don't like it.
     
    Last edited: 7 Sep 2014
  11. Porkins' Wingman

    Porkins' Wingman Can't touch this

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    15 years ago political correctness was just a shambolic set of daft 'positions' taken by the authorities that the rest of us scoffed at. Today PC is disturbingly becoming the norm. Just makes me laugh when people try and tell others what they can and can't say - sanctimonious twats!

    Annoyingly Facebook and Twitter have accelerated it because of the ease at which a few throwaway threats and insults get blown out of all proportion. I'll lay my challenge down again: is there anyone out there that can offend me using nothing but words?
     
  12. Pliqu3011

    Pliqu3011 all flowers in time bend towards the sun

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    Please don't turn things around now.
    No one is asking to stop making games with male leads, some people are asking to also create games with female leads (or just well-written female characters on the whole).
    No one is asking you to change your story to be "politically correct", people are reminding writers that diverse characters are definitely an option, and don't go unappreciated.

    Yet this is exactly what happens right now. In the AAA industry, most of the times, having a female lead, or spending time developing interesting female characters is just not an option at many publishers. They think it's too big a risk, they think it won't sell, but people are now trying to make it clear to them that well-written women in games are appreciated, and that lots and lots of people would still buy games with a female lead, either because of it, or because they don't mind playing as a female at all.
    Is this so wrong of them?
     
  13. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    It is not about words; it's about the ideas conveyed through them. Some ideas are bad ideas and deserve to be challenged. If they are not, then they become normalised and accepted as an OK idea, and after that, as the right idea.
     
  14. Shirty

    Shirty W*nker! Super Moderator

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    Dear science this thread has taken a turn for the serious. I'm going to put it out there and suggest that the comic strip that started it of was meant as a bit of light-hearted fun.
     
  15. Porkins' Wingman

    Porkins' Wingman Can't touch this

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    Hold on just one minute, Shirty, don't you go trying to normalise light-hearted fun :nono:

    Is there anyone out there that can offend me using nothing but ideas?
     
  16. Snips

    Snips I can do dat, giz a job

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    Tits or GTFO!
     
  17. MeddlE

    MeddlE Norwegian Blue

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    Please go have your discussions in another thread. This one is for funnies and demotes.

    If you can't handle the funnies or demotes then don't comment just leave.
     
  18. Fizzban

    Fizzban Man of Many Typos

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    Is demotivated by the lack of demotes :sigh:
     
  19. SuicideNeil

    SuicideNeil What's a Dremel?

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    My work he is done, sort of :D

    I'll just address a few issues though:

    Don't dismiss the issue purely because it's on the internet or a typical issue of someone lying- the whole basis for her campaign is based on a very serious lie, ergo it is something of a serious issue.

    Examples please? The only person who I know of having death/rape threats against them is Anita herself, and she sure as hell isn't a game developer.

    The issue here is that she wishes purely to advance her ultra-feminist agenda by picking out/on the 'issue' of how women are SOMETIMES portrayed in SOME games, ergo as victims and little more than sexual objects. I'd say fair enough, but guess what? Women in real life are often victims and portray themselves as sexual objects, for crying out loud! It's nothing more than art imitating life but the feminists don't like it so are crying foul for some reason.

    They all all go fornicate themselves wildly with a cucumber if they hate men and the work of men that much; I can't imagine a good feminist game would be too popular somehow...

    Anyways, demotes!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: 8 Sep 2014
  20. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Ideas beget action. There's the rub.
     

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