1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Build Advice Powerful computer for rendering

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Boswell, 4 Sep 2014.

  1. Boswell

    Boswell Active Member

    Joined:
    23 May 2005
    Posts:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    5
    Hello,

    I'm trying to put together a computer for my dad for rendering purposes at his work. His business in particular uses Autodesk Revit which is dependent on the CPU rather than the graphics card (you can read a discussion about this here)

    They are (naturally) having problems with rendering speeds and so I have offered to put a dedicated PC together to run renders.

    They currently have a few i7s/i5s PCs (not necessarily the latest reversion).. some PCs have 16GB of ram and another we have recently upgraded to 32GB. They have seen an improvement in renders on this PC so expanding a new build to 64GB or higher might be worthwhile.

    I understand that i7s can only handle 32GB of RAM and therefore I guess we should look at Xeons instead (?).

    I am struggling to get to grips with the 'current' range of Xeons available and therefore some advice on this would be good. Also is it worth spending extra on 1 CPU or building the computer with 2 slightly cheaper CPUs?

    Here is a build I have put together on Scan (I'm particularly unsure about the motherboard by the way!)

    There's no official budget (but I'm not about to recommend a £10k PC to him so be realistic) - so if there is something in particular that is worthwhile upgrading to then please say - and also if something is an overkill then please say as well!

    Thank you :)

    [​IMG]
     
  2. TheStockBroker

    TheStockBroker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19 Nov 2009
    Posts:
    1,526
    Likes Received:
    107
    Hmmmm,

    I won't be of much help, but as a start: That case won't fit that motherboard - E-ATX > ATX, nor do you need 4 heatsinks for 2 CPUs!
     
  3. hoochy

    hoochy Need moar cooling

    Joined:
    16 May 2012
    Posts:
    507
    Likes Received:
    16
    As a BIM consultant I deal with clients using Revit all the time. I am going to have a word with an Autodesk contact and drop something back here ASAP for you
     
  4. Boswell

    Boswell Active Member

    Joined:
    23 May 2005
    Posts:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    5
    OK thanks for the advice so far!

    Yes I wasn't so sure on the case (I just choose a cheap one!) - I'll look in more detail later.

    The fans I must have added twice! opps!

    Thanks jrs77 I'll discuss this with my Dad and I'll await to hear back from you hoochy :)

    --

    Regarding W7 - is there a cheaper way to buy this (legitimately) or is buying through Scan OEM going to be as cheap as anywhere else?

    Thanks
     
  5. GuilleAcoustic

    GuilleAcoustic Ook ? Ook !

    Joined:
    26 Nov 2010
    Posts:
    3,277
    Likes Received:
    71
    I wouldn't use non-ECC memory as long as money incone is involved. 8x8GB non-ECC is around 700€ while 8x8GB ECC is around 900€. Those 200 additionnal euros can save more money during long renders.

    As mentioned, you mixed LGA1150 CPU with an LGA2011 motherboard.

    I'd suggest this motherboard is you want something smaller than E-ATX: Gigabyte GA-7PXSL

    [​IMG]

    It has less usable PCIe slots than the Asus, but you'll be able to use a regular case. Just make sure to have an appropriate air flow :)
     
  6. IvanIvanovich

    IvanIvanovich будет глотать вашу душу.

    Joined:
    31 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    4,870
    Likes Received:
    252
    I would go instead for a single CPU like Xeon E5-2670 v3 for 12c/24t on a UP workstation class motherboard. Sure CPU cost more, but you only need to buy one. But the motherboard will probably be less and since it's a regular ATX you won't have issues with cases likely saving money again. Also for SSD you want something with a very high write endurance. I would probably go for a write tailored sas SSD there. If they won't be using GPU to render or for other work you really don't need one. The onboard would probably be just fine for administration if needed as I would guess they will more than likely be controlling jobs remotely from other workstations anyway.

    That Gigabyte board is pretty nice though. I think it's the smallest DP motherboard I've seen that wasn't some strange non-ATX thing like deeper but matx height instead or having all the ports in the center with pci-e slots on each end or some other silliness.
     
    Last edited: 4 Sep 2014
  7. Boswell

    Boswell Active Member

    Joined:
    23 May 2005
    Posts:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ok thanks but is the E5-2670 v3 even available yet? I couldn't find it on any online computer shops..

    Regarding the memory - can I not just buy 4 x 16 GB ecc registered like I have in my basket above? It works out a lot cheaper than buyer 8 x 8 GB.
     
  8. GuilleAcoustic

    GuilleAcoustic Ook ? Ook !

    Joined:
    26 Nov 2010
    Posts:
    3,277
    Likes Received:
    71
    I do not think that it has been released yet. The E5-2670V3 will require an LGA2011-V3 socket motherboard. All board mentioned here are for E5-26xx and E5-26xxV2 CPU only (LGA2011 socket).

    I wouldn't suggest a 12 cores E5 CPU as they are outrageously expensive. For example a single E5-2697v2 (12 cores / 24 threads) costs 2800€ while two E5-2630 v2 (6 cores / 12 threads each) costs 1250€ (625€ each). For the price of the 2.7GHz 12 cores E5 you have TWO 2.2GHZ 10 cores. While being 19% slower (2.2GHZ vs 2.7GHZ), you'll have 66% more cores (2x 10 cores vs 12 cores), all for the same price!

    Now it depends on the usage. If it's only for rendering, then more but slower cores will be better. If it's also used for modelling, then you'll need FAST single core performance and then higher frequency will be mandatory.

    It all depends on what you'll get. Xeon E5 have quad channel memory, meaning they'll benefit from having 4 sticks each. If you jump for a single CPU, then 4 memory sticks will be fine. If you go for dual CPUs, then you'll need 4 sticks for each CPU (i.e. 8 memory sticks). Less than 4 sticks for each CPU will impact the memory bandwidth.
     
    Last edited: 5 Sep 2014
  9. hoochy

    hoochy Need moar cooling

    Joined:
    16 May 2012
    Posts:
    507
    Likes Received:
    16
    Has any consideration been made to transferring the rending process to a cloud based system such as the Autodesk rendering solution that integrates with Revit

    http://www.autodesk.com/products/rendering/overview

    There is of course a cost, but ROI needs to be considered etc... against cost of continued investment, time to render etc...

    Having first hand experience of this I know it is a vast improvement over desktop rendering in Revit

    How big is the business and what is their line of work?
     
  10. GuilleAcoustic

    GuilleAcoustic Ook ? Ook !

    Joined:
    26 Nov 2010
    Posts:
    3,277
    Likes Received:
    71
    Nice idea, that comforts me thinking that in a short future, we'll only have "thin client" computer that will connect to a cloud / reomte server for intensive computations (maybe gaming included).
     
  11. hoochy

    hoochy Need moar cooling

    Joined:
    16 May 2012
    Posts:
    507
    Likes Received:
    16
    Off topic slightly, but if you look at Autodesk, all their software is moving to the cloud so the processing power is handled their end allowing for the idea you note in respect of 'thin client' - fully functioning software as complex as this on a tablet anyone? yes please
     
  12. hoochy

    hoochy Need moar cooling

    Joined:
    16 May 2012
    Posts:
    507
    Likes Received:
    16
    Back this up please. A whole construction industry would beg to differ I expect (at least those forward thinking)
     
  13. jinq-sea

    jinq-sea 'write that down in your copy book' Super Moderator

    Joined:
    15 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    8,226
    Likes Received:
    408
    It's OK - jrs77 likes to ruffle feathers, be it berating people for having and using too much storage, or doing something that he, personally, doesn't agree with...

    I would like to hear evidence in support of your arguments though, jrs77 :thumb:
     
  14. jinq-sea

    jinq-sea 'write that down in your copy book' Super Moderator

    Joined:
    15 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    8,226
    Likes Received:
    408
    So you don't like maintaining your data at home on hard drives, and don't like it in the cloud? Hmm. Something's not right here ;)

    Back OT: Paying for remote CPU time for rendering might be a good option, but I have no idea about costs! Else, the recommendations for lots of cores and threads are bang on, to my mind! :thumb:
     
  15. Boswell

    Boswell Active Member

    Joined:
    23 May 2005
    Posts:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    5
    Thanks for the input - I have discounted cloud as their internet connection is too slow and the Autodesks cloud rendering doesn't support 'walk through' videos.

    The business is an Architectural one and is of fairly small in personnel.

    We might look at something else now - a plug in from 'Octane' (for Revit). It looks like they do (among other things) GPU rendering. I think this would be a cheaper (& maybe faster) option if we were to buy a nice GFX along side this..
     
  16. hoochy

    hoochy Need moar cooling

    Joined:
    16 May 2012
    Posts:
    507
    Likes Received:
    16
    How can you give yourself 100% guarantee that your data isn't going to get lost? Break in, corrupt hardware, fire etc...?

    Back to OP

    There are some good plugins out there - just thought I would put the cloud based option as a idea

    Do they require real time rendering of environments or walkthrough pre produced?

    There is some fantastic working being done with taking models into game engines such a CryEngine and Unity etc... to produce results

    Let us know how you get on.
     
  17. GuilleAcoustic

    GuilleAcoustic Ook ? Ook !

    Joined:
    26 Nov 2010
    Posts:
    3,277
    Likes Received:
    71
    The Brigade 3.0 real-time path tracing is very impressive :



    The above video runs in real-time on 2 GTX Titans.

    Off-Topic: To show some support to JRS, I agree that most peoples store utterly useless data on their drives.
     
    Last edited: 5 Sep 2014
  18. IvanIvanovich

    IvanIvanovich будет глотать вашу душу.

    Joined:
    31 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    4,870
    Likes Received:
    252
    Oh well I didn't realize that they weren't available over there yet. You can buy Intel Xeon E5-2670 v3 for around $1600 in USA now as well as some other released V3 Xeon models. Finding the V3 socket C610 motherboards is another story but I suppose you can use them in X99.
     
  19. Guinevere

    Guinevere Mega Mom

    Joined:
    8 May 2010
    Posts:
    2,478
    Likes Received:
    176
    That software will using up to 16 cores....

    source: http://knowledge.autodesk.com/suppo...Autodesk-Revit-2015-products.html#performance

    ... so if you want the very best performance for renders that take some time then it's better to go with 'more cores' over 'faster cores'. Single threaded tasks will be slower but for those 16 thread renders it will scream.

    Something like:

    http://configure.euro.dell.com/dell...-t7610-workstation&c=uk&l=en&s=bsd&cs=ukbsdt1

    But a fast six core might hit the sweet spot on price / performance.

    Personally I wouldn't be looking to build a rig for this type of work, I'd pick up a HP or Dell workstation and be done with it (Or a Mac Pro) (Hence the link). I just wouldn't think of doing a self build dual core workstation, and there's been too many 'workstation' grade motherboards that haven't been that great.

    I'd rather just buy-and-use rather than spend a fortnight tracking down why the damn thing keeps stuttering or hanging or some other random glitch.

    The 'risks' of (small or large) compatibility issues increases with a custom build and in a pro environment it sure helps to know a quick google will tell you if anyone else if having the same issues and how they fixed them.

    If it was me, I'd probably go for a 6 or 8 core Mac Pro and look at GPU rendering for my rendering pipeline.
    http://store.apple.com/uk/buy-mac/mac-pro?product=MD878B/A&step=config
    I have no idea if this is a valid route to take with the software being used, so I'd ask a lot of questions of Mr Google.
     
    Last edited: 5 Sep 2014
  20. Archtronics

    Archtronics Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    27 Jun 2006
    Posts:
    2,559
    Likes Received:
    64
    I work with revit daily amongst other software, We use dell workstations 2 xeons each with 128gb ram and nvida cards which is a tad overkill but I'm dealing with average file sizes of 100gbs. The best bit about these tho is Dells after service which is a life saver in business next day part replacement etc.

    As for rendering if he has the building design suite then he will have 3DS max which you could use to export to vray which is the current industry standard. I would avoid Autodesk cloud for now it's expensive and slow even on fibre.
     
    Last edited: 5 Sep 2014

Share This Page