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Gaming The 50 Best PC Games of All Time: Part Two

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Dogbert666, 8 Jul 2016.

  1. Dogbert666

    Dogbert666 *Fewer Staff Administrator

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  2. Star*Dagger

    Star*Dagger New Member

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    Solid games.

    Still INVALID list without X-Com
     
  3. Pete J

    Pete J RIP Teelzebub

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    Ahh, Max Payne 2. Good game! Improved on the original in every way.

    I hugely enjoyed FarCry 3 but get a weird bug that stops me progressing beyond a few minutes into FarCry 4. I'll see if that's gone now as I'd love to get back to killing bears with a machete. Even the short time spent with the main bad guy was awesome, and the view from his palace...awesome.

    By the way, please will nobody quote the person above me? He/she's on my blocked list and I hate accidentally reading drivel.
     
  4. Mr_Mistoffelees

    Mr_Mistoffelees The Lunatic on the Grass.

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    The list also doesn't include my favourite games, that does not make it invalid. The list is the author's favourite games, not yours.
     
  5. Flibblebot

    Flibblebot Smile with me

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    We're also only 20 games in. Who's to say that X-Com won't appear somewhere in the top 30?
     
  6. David

    David RIP Tel

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    We are talking about Star Dagger here, chaps - your very valid points are being wasted on the willfully stupid.
     
  7. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    I really feel like putting Elite Dangerous on here is a sign that you just haven't played it enough. I've sunk a good few hours into it, and really it's just a grinding game. There is nothing to do but get better stuff. Why do you get better stuff? So you can use that stuff to get better stuff!

    There's no real involvement beyond that and once the veil drops the game is just tedium.
     
  8. Cthippo

    Cthippo Can't mod my way out of a paper bag

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    How can any open ended game really be anything else, though?

    Single player games can have a story with a beginning, middle and ending, but it's hard to have a cohesive story in a game that is never meant to end. Add to that the fact that there are no real factions, no ongoing teams, just a bunch of individuals popping in to play for a few hours and then going back to IRL. In such an environment there is no shared history, and hence no ongoing story. There is no overarching strategy, just a series of tactical engagements, each with small rewards, the very definition of grinding.
     
  9. Star*Dagger

    Star*Dagger New Member

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    Actually read the article as many times as it takes, lol.
     
  10. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    Perhaps they can't. Maybe open ended games just aren't that good. That said, lots of games which gave you total freedom within their world still had loads of stuff to do. Even if you took many open world games without their main quests, the world's would still be compelling and there is plenty to do. Elite lacks this. There is only one thing to do, which is accumulate better stuff in order to be able to accumulate better stuff. It's got the problem that when I ask myself "So what?" I don't have an answer.

    Elite *could* have factions, teams, clans, business empires, decent NPC interactions. It's a world waiting to be populated with activities. It really feels like half a game.
     
  11. Flibblebot

    Flibblebot Smile with me

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    I've read the articles, both of them. What secret, hidden nugget of information am I missing?
     
  12. lacuna

    lacuna Member

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    Far Cry 4 was okay but 3 had a much better story. I liked the additional 'stuff' in 4 but really didn't care about any of the characters at all and after I had unlocked everything, including the game breaking 'Buzzsaw', winning was just a formality with no challenge.
     
  13. David

    David RIP Tel

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    I haven't played Elite Dangerous for fear of this. I detest most open-ended games for the reason you mentioned - they invariably turn out to be repetitive grind-fests. The open world promise eventually gives way to tedium and resentment, which is a horrible way to remember a game that probably started out by giving you a great deal of enjoyment.

    I hate to use the term, but that lack of "closure" is a fatal flaw that has been present in almost every open-ended game I have ever played.
     
  14. Flibblebot

    Flibblebot Smile with me

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    I think it's a combination of closure and what Spec alluded to in his post: the lack of a story for your character. I've played loads of MMORPGs and other open-ended games like Elite, and what really did it for me was the fact that I didn't really have any connection to the game world: so, someone's asking me to go somewhere and get something, or kill something, or make wild, passionate love to something...but there's no real reason for me to do it. It's not going to advance a storyline any further, it's not going to change the game world in any way - so I have no real "buy-in" to what's going on, and no real incentive other than to get more XP, more levels and more stuff.

    I guess that's why I prefer single-player games to multiplayer games: I'm just a sucker for a storyline.
     
  15. Yadda

    Yadda Well-Known Member

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    This is why I only seem to get along with driving games and online FPS.

    I find open world and MMO games feel like pointless grind-fests and most single player games (with the exception of some driving games) are too narrow with too much emphasis on looks and storyline, and not much scope for player skill.
     
  16. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    It certainly does turn into a grind fest (or rather, you realise that it has been all along). There is fun to be had, but once the realisation sets in, a lot of the charm is lost.

    That said, I don't believe a lack of ending need be a killer blow to all open ended games. I have spent many hundreds of hours in my life playing the Elder Scrolls games from Morrowind on, GTA, and many other open world games. While they do have story lines, they have no defined ending, but they're fun because there's lots of stuff to do which isn't just "get better stuff". My issue with Elite is not the nature of the game, but rather the lack of actual content. It's a world(/universe) waiting to be populated, and I don't have confidence that the devs actually realise how important this is.
     
  17. David

    David RIP Tel

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    There is probably a balance to be struck , but I've never held much regard for the arguments that scripted single player games are too narrow. Scripting a game can limit options but it is also a way of telling a great story and drawing you into the world. Replayability can often suffer, unless you get creative and find game mechanics that will alter the path you take and offer variations on the eventual outcomes, but I'll read a great book or watch a great film more than once; and they don't change either.

    I made an observation recently when discussing the growing VR fad. The argument was the sense of immersion in the game world was greater with a VR interface - to which I replied that immersion was never a problem if the game was good enough.

    Elite Dangerous, even when experienced via VR headset won't stop being a grindfest - it's just that the wow factor will kick the can a little further down the road before it becomes apparent. So many games feel more like they've been created by a soulless business model than by a group of people with a bunch of talent and passion.
     
  18. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    While I don't agree with the idea that VR is a fad, I think otherwise you're spot on. VR will give some games like ED a boost in wow factor, once that fades, it's back to the pointless grind. I think if a game is good, VR is only going to add to that. Skyrim in VR, at least in my head, would be amazing.
     
  19. David

    David RIP Tel

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    I make no attempts to hide my opinion of VR - I'm certainly not a fan, but I am willing to accept being proven wrong; although I have no intention of coughing up £600-£700 to find out. I believe the only way for it to win people over is for it to become accessible, so I'll wait until the tech is refined and readily available for a quarter of the current asking price.

    Back to the Soulless business model for a moment - the cynic in me believes that VR will just open the floodgates for the sausage machine to start pumping out dross dressed in tinsel - it's awesome cos it's VR! Rather than the stagnation in PC gaming being addressed, this tech will just disguise the problem for a while longer, in my opinion.

    Skyrim would be the perfect example - the leveling and grinding was so obviously a brake to prevent you romping through the main quest in a few hours. VR won't change that. Christ, a Holodeck wouldn't change that.
     
    Last edited: 13 Jul 2016
  20. lacuna

    lacuna Member

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    I'm afraid I am firmly in the VR cynic camp. For gaming it will be an incredibly short lived gimmick amongst the masses. I think the novelty will have worn off before Microsoft even get their console on the market
     

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