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Gaming The Death of Stealth

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by CardJoe, 1 Nov 2010.

  1. Havalynii

    Havalynii New Member

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    While in general I agree with you that "consolification" damages PC game quality, I actually think stealth games can work quite well on a console, such as was the case with Splinter Cell and Metal Gear Solid. FPS games in general, however, suffer greatly when compared to much more realistic FPS games on PC. I have Operation Flashpoint for the original XBox. It was a terrible port of a game that can never be reduced to standard resolution and a controller.
     
  2. DbD

    DbD Member

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    Stealth is an option in lots of fps so to say it's dead is wrong - lots of games have that (.e.g. alien vs predator hasn't been mentioned yet, neither has L4D vs mode where you use stealth to jump the humans).

    However I think the major shift from stealth based games to just having it as an option is stealth doesn't work well on-line. There are few things likely to turn off a new gamer faster then being repeatedly killed by someone he can't even see, hence no game can be to reliant on stealth.
     
  3. CardJoe

    CardJoe Freelance Journalist

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    Read the article.
     
  4. Flibblebot

    Flibblebot Smile with me

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    But I hate that developers seem to have fallen into this "console gamers have the attention span of goldfish" mindset. Nor do I subscribe to the elitist PC idea that all console gamers are dumb.

    I'm a console gamer (there. I said it), and what I value above all else in a game is depth of story, development of character and in-depth gameplay. Surely the success of games like Fallout & Mass Effect have shown that there is a market for games that don't cater to the "quick fix" mentality.

    Sure, the console control mechanism means that the UI has to be simplified, but how does that mean that the game has to be simplified too?

    Like Mentai said above, the Batman game used stealth to great effect - it just wasn't possible to go in to a room full of baddies all batarangs blazing and expect to survive. I loved that it would take me 10 or 15 minutes to clear a room as I waited for enemies to walk to a place where I could take them out quietly.

    So, a note to all game developers (and those elitist PC gamers who think you're somehow better than console gamers): not all console gamers are 15-year-old with the attention span of a goldfish on speed. Some of us are older, some of us like story and character development, and some of us like stealth.
     
  5. Havalynii

    Havalynii New Member

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    @Flibblebot

    I hope I didn't give the impression that I consider you dumb. I switched back to PC after a hiatus that covered the N64, Dreamcast, and original XBox, and some games work quite well on console (I mentioned some excellent stealth ones above). The games that I was talking about that DON'T work near as well on a console are more along the lines of strategic or tactical shooters with a focus on squad/company/platoon/brigade command. Those have quite a bit of stealth, which is why I mentioned them, but Flashpoint and Splinter Cell are two wildly different beasts. I think that I'm more interested (as I think you are saying you are also) in developers having the confidence playing to the potential strengths of a given platform. Shenmue is a console game I enjoyed on two systems that is definitely a thinking game, as are KOTOR I and II, and countless others. Fallout 3 is perfect for a console, but STALKER, a game that appears quite similar on the surface, would be miserable on a console without some serious handicaps given to the player to make his aiming able to keep up with an opponent that reacts like a seasoned mouse and keyboard human player. Sorry for the long post, I was just wanting to clarify that I am decidely NOT anti-console nor calling anyone dumb!
     
  6. B33 ENN

    B33 ENN Lock'n'Load

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    Though the game admittedly has its faults, being somewhat of an unfinished product, for me, sneaking and sniping is as rewarding in Far Cry 2 as running-and-gunning (which you can't do for long without adequate planning for cover if you want to survive anyway!). Usually, a mix of the two is most efficient. It's one of the things I love about that game and keeps me coming back to it: it's down to you to invent your own playing style and how you choose to approach objectives.

    I have approached the same missions many different ways, and at the polar extremes from blasting the enemy camps into confusion with grenade and RPG assaults, to a night time skulk into their inner sanctum to accomplish the goal and exit to safety without a single shot fired. Use an IED to blow up the convoy hiding at safe distance, or challenge yourself by using only a pistol and the terrain as your ally to scupper the defenders.

    I'm about to move on to STALKER, which I hear has similar player determined flexibility; however, openworld/sandbox games aren't for everyone. I don't think stealth is dead, but more that good game developers are advancing to offer more realistic choices in approach whatever the underlying structure of the game: Crysis was a game that offered the linear progression that many players prefer, yet still offering a variey of choice to the player in determining his/her approach (for the first half levels anyway).

    I'd like to see more games like this in future where the game engines don't have to be "canned" to offer an either/or scenario for a game script (i.e. stealth game OR run-and-gun game). CoR: Assault on Dark Athena was a good example of that, where in the Butcher's Bay remake part, you stealth around consistent with Riddick's character... but then they shift it to beat-and-maul in new Dark Athena mission, leaving you unable to choose.
     
    Last edited: 1 Nov 2010
  7. Adnoctum

    Adnoctum Kill_All_Humans

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    I hate to be one of those guys, but...
    Unless this is an amusing pun that I didn't catch, this should be "Whale of a time".

    Batman: AA was crap. There, I said it. Let the tomato throwing commence. I know a lot of people loved it.
    I played it on PC (as a non-console owner) and it was a terrible port that ruined my playing experience, especially combos and controls that wouldn't work properly with a KB. You could see it was designed for a controller. The stealth combat was quite fun zipping from vantage point to vantage point and designing take-downs (it made a nice change from all the run and gun games), but I found lost interest in the game quite quickly.

    And I could never quite maintain the appropriate cognitive dissonance required to accept the fact that there were gargoyles on the inside of the asylum buildings. The whole point of gargoyles is to keep flowing water away from stone walls. Even if they were grotesques (decorative figures), though they are styled as gargoyles, why are these littering such non-gothic locations such as the tiled mortuary? I'm sorry, all this pushed my ability to suspend my disbelief long enough to find it fun.
     
  8. Bloody_Pete

    Bloody_Pete Technophile

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    I'm suprised noones mention the origional Tenchu: Stealth Assassins... Not full stealth, but some of the levels were beautiful, creaping round knifing people through paper walls and such... Odd cheats too :p

    The main reason I love stealth games, after the problem solving aspect, is the silenced weapons. I love silenced weapons. In Rainbow 6: LV2 I always had silencers in place, in Crysis it was the same, the last level in Hitman 4 where, if you'd upgraded right, you had the full customised sniping M4 with 200 round mag!!! I went crazy on one play through and 'stealthly' killed everyone on the level with that gun... Don't judge me. There's nothing more beautiful than hearing that 'phut' and seeing a little burst of blood knowing that the guard isn't going to raise the alarm and none of his friends know your about...
     
  9. lacuna

    lacuna Member

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    I suppose I do play games in a semi-stealthy way but thats limited to sniping where possible. The rest of the time I need to ensure that everything is made dead in the most spectacular way. Also, I will usually just run into unknown rooms etc with guns blazing for the first time and see what happens rather than carefully planning as I can always do that the next time if the direct approach didn't work.
     
  10. stonedsurd

    stonedsurd Is a cackling Yuletide Belgian

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    I'm glad I'm not the only one. This is one of the main reasons (much to my dad's confusion) I shoot subsonic ammo and got a silencer for our (his, really) rifle. Overkill for a .22 but oh-so-much fun!
     
  11. CardJoe

    CardJoe Freelance Journalist

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    Oh god yes. Silenced pistols are the best.
     
  12. chimaera

    chimaera New Member

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    To be honest I have long found games with this sort of perspective work better with a joypad-type controller - its probably been that way for me since Prince of Persia: Sands of Time.

    As a port I'd say its damned near perfect - the experience for me playing on a PC (with a controller) is exactly the same as it was playing on the console when it first came out. I don't think its particularly fair to hold a game to blame because it works better with a control scheme that isn't a keyboard and mouse.

    Obviously I can't comment on any of your personal opinions though - I know from experience that if something manages to knock the suspension of disbelief it can then completely ruin the experience - there have been a number of films and games that for me were ruined completely by some unutterably stupid occurrence at some point in the proceedings.

    Speaking personally however, I loved Batman AA, although I would have preferred more of the stealth take-down sequences at the expense of the big group fights, but thats just my own personal opinion.
     
  13. connos

    connos New Member

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    They will be back with vengeance...
     
  14. nemo

    nemo Foregone Destruction

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    Nice article.

    The proper term for it in Thief was 'Ghosting' -> complete 100% of objectives (primary and secondary) without alerting/killing anyone.

    A guy called tarvis79 has some nice 'Lets Ghost Thief' videos on YouTube. Turn down the brightness on your screen and re-live the atmosphere

     
  15. azrael-

    azrael- I'm special...

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    What about Manhunt? That game was quite stealth-driven as well. Sneaking up to an unsuspecting victim and pulling a plastic bag over his head. Never played Manhunt 2, so I don't know how it stacks up.
     
  16. hirezo

    hirezo steam&BF3: killahlatch

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    stealth is becoming less of a genre and more a theme of 1 or 2 missions in a game
     
  17. Waynio

    Waynio Relaxing

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    Stealth games are dying out. Ironically, you might not have noticed.

    LOL That quote instantly got my attention :hehe:, awesome article & I lol at the captions under the pics especially the ac one :D.

    I hope too that hitman 5 & thief 4 get released, those 2 would be must buys on release day.

    What Krayzie_B.o.n.e. said it would be brilliant if a top notch realistic ninja game came along, kind of like tenchu but with great graphics, sound & nice fluid animation, I would so buy such a game.

    AC is great but is a joke as a stealth game.
     
  18. knuck

    knuck Hate your face

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    Did somebody say PP7 ? :D
     
  19. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    I enjoyed stealth in fallout 3 and Crysis. Whats great about fallout is being able to play in so many different was, ie steal or out and out violence. Try making a character that has no weapon skills and has to use chat skills to get everywhere and stealth, its some challange.

    The best stealth game tho has to be tenchu. Anything after fatal shows tho sucked but i do miss that game! Personally it wasn't a decline in the m,arket for stealth, it was crappy developers ripping the classics off poorly and launching a game for the sake of it. that sorta happened to hit man. Blood money had nothing new and contracts was a stripped back version of 2 imo.
     
  20. JustLeigh

    JustLeigh New Member

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    Tenchu on the PS1 was fantastic. Great atmosphere (good music) and it really made me feel like a ninja. I am mystified as to why there has not been an equal to it since. Can it be that hard to design?
    And Tenchu, MGS and others were console games so I do not subscribe to this dumbing down theory.
     
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