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Build Advice Totally Out of Date I am

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Razgrad, 2 Dec 2010.

  1. Cerberus90

    Cerberus90 Car Spannerer

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    There's no case there either.

    And c'mon, an SSD on a £400 budget, are you insane? :D
     
  2. Marine-RX179

    Marine-RX179 New Member

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    Ah well, £30 for the case then...forgotten about that.

    And like I already said, he need to check what kind of spec his 2TB hard-drive is first. And no I'm not insane to suggest he should "consider" get a faster hard-drive as the operating drive if his existing 2TB does turn out to be just a slow 5,400rpm drive. Alternate to a £90 SSD, you seriously think he should go for a £40 7,200rpm hard-drive instead, despite he doesn't really need the extra storage space since he already got a 2TB drive!? Nothing insane about getting a 60GB SSD for £50 extra, comparing to a £40 7,200rpm drive when he already got enough storage space.

    But if he really don't want to go beyond budget, he could stick with his existing 2TB drive, even if it does turn out to be a slow 5,400rpm hard-drive...as bad an idea as it is.

    Edited: Must have missed the post regarding the drives:
    From the feedback of the people that got those external drive, they are pretty unreliable, so they are definitely not good for being used as a operating drive.
     
    Last edited: 4 Dec 2010
  3. Dae314

    Dae314 New Member

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    lol I answered you in the very first reply post.

    That build is nice, I'm surprised that you managed to fit all that in there within his price range, or maybe it's because you're using a different site :p I'm not from the UK so I don't know the best places to recommend parts from and I just use scan to make a baseline build which can be improved.

    As I understand it, he owns two 1GB external HDDs which he wants to convert into two internal 1GB HDDs. Because the drives start out as externals, it's hard to say exactly what the specs are on them (rpm, r/w speed, etc). I do mention in my first post that the external HDDs specs might be a little subpar given that they're not made with holding an OS in mind. The drives are likely 5400rpm, and it's unknown whether they're SATA or ATA interface. For gaming, HDD access doesn't need to be super fast, and a super fast HDD would only help with bootup and program start up, and some other smaller tasks for what he does. If he is worried though I maintain that upping the budget to £450 and getting a spinpoint F3 or some other faster drive might be better. The SSD you recommended is a bit expensive though :p, but the SSD should be 40GB-60GB for the OS to live comfortably.
     
  4. Marine-RX179

    Marine-RX179 New Member

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    I forgotten the case and optical drive in my earlier list :blush: So need to add extra £30 for the case and £12 for a optical drive.

    If he must keep the budget to as close to £400 as possible, he could drop from the Gigabyte GTX460 1GB SOC down to a GTX460 768MB, and the Antec TP 650 to other branded PSU at around £55. And from the looks of it, you would need to get a hard-drive as well. But the question is...whether he want to just spend £40 and get the Samsung F3 1TB, which the extra space he probably won't ever get to the point of needing since he already got two 1TB external HDD, or would he spend £90 on a 60~64GB SSD instead, which would make using the computer with instant responsiveness.
     
  5. Razgrad

    Razgrad Member

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    Ok , is there any way to find out what is the actual hard drive inside the box ? Before i open the case, I wanna know if there is any website or smth, that can tell me what model hard drive ive got into my external ....
    I had a 3rd 750 GB hdd, but because it was vertically oriented i felt from about 1 feet while working, and In 2 weeks time it stopped working, and I lost all of my information. Even freezing it , didnt help. So all my pictures about 5GB and all my software, movies etc.... all is gone. Then i bought my 2nd 1TB hdd.

    So I know that the one that failed was also Seagate, and I can tell you the specs that are written on it. ( i didn't throw it yet, I am waiting for some "next generation" data recovery machine , so I can get my pictures back .... ) :)
    So here is a picture of my broken drive. If i have to, I'll open the other two as well.

    [​IMG]


    Also on the end of the story , is that What I should get ? With the case added in the list !?

    [​IMG]
    Plus + this for a Case http://www.scan.co.uk/products/cool...-with-window-120mm-front-led-blue-fan-w-o-psu

    Also is that Everything I will need ? Or I should still have to buy anything else such as coolers ? or they come with the parts ?


    P.S. Will I be able to use any parts from my VAIO ?
    P.S. Edit2 : Also I would like some regular middle class dvd burner, as I am not going into Blue Ray yet.... any average ... If i want to install my OS, I will need it i Guess. ....
     
    Last edited: 5 Dec 2010
  6. docodine

    docodine killed a guy once

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    You can kind of use parts from the laptop, but the effort may not be worth it.

    There are a few desktop mobos that use laptop RAM, and you can use the hard drive if you want to rig up some mounting and possibly buy an adapter.

    If you're going AMD, I can recommend the Asrock 870 Extreme3 as a good budget mobo.
     
  7. Marine-RX179

    Marine-RX179 New Member

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    Like I said in my previous post, I also forgot to include a optical-drive (DVD-Rewriter) in that basket, but you should be able to add one to the list at around £12. As for the case, I also wanted to recommend you the CM Elite 430 as well. My friend bought one for his new build couple of weeks ago. While it's a bit lacking in the cable management area, it is a very decent case for the price and would fit long graphic card such as even the 5970:
    http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=6654
    It was at £38 when he bought it as well, so at around £30 it is very good price.

    So with the case and optical-drive added, that brings to total up to around £445.

    Now if you wish to cut down on the total cost, the graphic card and PSU can be knocked down a bit to save some money.
    Graphic card:
    Gigabyte GTX460 1GB SOC (£154) to Gigabyte GTX460 OC 768MB (£123.50): Save £30.50
    PSU:
    Antec TP 650 (£70) to Coolermaster GX 650W (£57): Save £13

    Total saving: £43.50

    So basically, if you are not going to get a new hard-drive or upgrading Windows, and will cut down on the graphic card and PSU, the total cost would be around £445-£43.50, which the total works out to be around £401.50.

    And then for the hard-drive...

    Personally I would only consider Western Digital or Samsung for hard-drive, and would avoid Seagate as I've seen quite a number of people stating their Seagate drives failing on them...I myself had 5 Maxtor hard-drive failed on me over the years, and Maxtor is now part of Seagate...

    For your external hard-drives, I'm afraid I can't find anything about the actual model or spec of the hard-drives inside; but as the two external hard-drives, I saw feedback from the links your provided that those drives are not very reliable, and I doubt they are fast 7,200rpm drives anyway as they are external drives, so you'd probably best getting a new hard-drive for using as the operating drive.

    I just gonna drop down a range of options for you to consider...but in the end it up to you to decide what to do as it is your money. The lower price of the two is with the graphic card and PSU cut back, the higher is without.

    Do note that you are already over-budget, adding a hard-drive like Samsung F3 1TB which cost around £40 would bring the total to around £441.50/£485. But as I said before, if you don't really need the extra storage space and your two external hard-drive is reliable enough as storage drives, then you could considering spending £50 extra on getting a SSD such as the Crucial 64GB Real SSD C300 (£90) instead of the Samsung F3 1TB (£40):
    http://www.ebuyer.com/product/225804
    Installing the Windows on this drive would make your experience of using Windows completely changed, as everything you do in Windows would feel like instant responsiveness, and Windows would be ready to use right away as soon as you get into it, and no need to wait for like 1 min or so for all your background programs to load up (provided that you installed both the Windows and all the applications you use on the SSD). You could also install 1 or 2 games you play the most on it to make load time a lot shorter. Total cost for this option: Around £491.50/£535

    Alternatively, you can forget the SSD, get the Samsung F3 and upgrading to Windows 7. If your Windows XP is a legitimate copy, then may be you can get a Windows 7 Upgrade disc for around £75 from Amazon:
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-W...S81C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291533238&sr=8-1
    Total cost for this option: Around £516.50/£560

    As for CPU cooler, there's a stock cooler comes with the Retail Athlon II X3 450, so if you are not overclocking too much, you don't really need to get a 3rd party CPU cooler. But do note that stock cooler that comes with the CPU can be loud when under load. If you want a reasonably effective and quiet CPU cooler without breaking the bank, you could consider the Arctic Cooling Freezer Pro 7 Rev.2.
     
    Last edited: 5 Dec 2010
  8. Dae314

    Dae314 New Member

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    I'm not so sure about that alternate PSU choice there. The GX750 didn't get a very good rating from johnnyguru source. It might not speak for the entire line, but I'd wanna play it a bit safer. Some CM PSUs are great, but I know others aren't, and I haven't heard of the GX being one of the good ones.

    I agree to the build on that page so far except that you can probably bump down the PSU to 450W-550W, and you just need to add a cheap dvd burner. The CM 430 is a good case.

    My opinions on PSU:
    Corsair CX500
    Antec EA500
     
  9. Razgrad

    Razgrad Member

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    Thanks Guys. Before I continue with the questions, I have to make something clear.
    So at the moment, what I've got is :
    -24 inch monitor,
    -mouse
    - kbd
    -stereo hify ,
    -usb hub
    -1tb Buffalo external hdd
    -1tb Seagate external hdd
    -notebook : Sony VAIO VGN FW11M Running Vista Home Edition (250 GB ) (no battery but runing smoothly while plugged )
    -notebook : Sony VAIO VGN FS980 Runing XP home Edition ( 80 Gb )

    NOTE: I thought I have the installation CDs for my XP , but I was wrong. So now I have only the Operating systems installed on the Hard drvies
    But I do know , that there are hidden partitions on them, that contain the recovery installation. They are both original OSs and both are able to Auto Update. Mind, I don't know my CD keys or anything.




    So let me start again with the questions.
    Because the hard drive choice may become an Issue, I came up with another idea -
    IS it possible to :
    Use my Vista Hard drive into my new build as a primary HDD, and Use the actual Vista so I don't need to buy a new OS ?
    Also will my 80 GB XP laptop HDD will work on my better VAIO, from which I will take the Vista HDD ?
    I will then sell my oldest VAIO for 50 pounds or so .... Then the newer one will be given to my sister with the 60GB hdd, as she doesn't need storage. She is a facebooker. ....

    To make things clear - I don't mind if the hard drive is hanging or its not stable in the case of the new build . I can always strap it with a cable tight or something ... I don't want to buy a case for the hdd either... Well if it costs 2-5 punds, maybe. ..

    Also if the 80 GB XP doesn't fit the new VAIO, I can always come with a solution to strap it with smth, as long as they are compatible.

    On the end I have to ask do I need to buy any cables - such as power cable for the PC, Sata cables or any others ?

    If the Thing with the hard drives doesn't work, Then I'll consider going for the 445 version, with no extra hdd, or maybe for the one with the Samsung 1 TB for 441 ( with the cut of the video card 768 mb instead )

    Thanks guys, tell me please what do you think about the hard drive options...
     
  10. Dae314

    Dae314 New Member

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    I did a bit of research on the HDD issue again and this is what I got:

    If your laptop HDDs are SATA interface then it should be possible to simply connect up the normal SATA connections to it and have it run. source. That said, if your your laptop uses an IDE drive (pic) you won't be able to just connect everything (one because the IDE connections between desktop and laptop aren't the same and 2 b/c I'm not sure the motherboard even has an IDE connection on it). Of course the tiny laptop HDD isn't going to fit in a 3.5" drive bay though so you'll have to figure out some way to deal with that (using rubberbands and making a suspension system works).

    Here's the possible situations in descending order of junkness:

    1) Both laptops contain SATA connected HDDs with no converters and whatever.
    Yay good for you, you can just do the swaps like you're thinking. The XP HDD might not fit nicely into the newer laptop's drive bay though.​

    2) The Vista laptop has a SATA drive but the old laptop does not
    The Vista HDD should be able to connect up to the new desktop, but the old XP HDD will need an IDE to SATA adapter which means that the XP HDD might not fit too nicely in the newer laptop.​

    3) Both laptops have IDE interface HDDs
    The swap between the laptops shouldn't be too hard, but you'd need an IDE to SATA adapter to make the Vista drive work on the desktop. I'm not sure how that affects performance or if that's a good idea...​

    Note that system manufacturers will usually use OEM operating systems on their machines so when you do a HDD switch like that the OS might detect that a new motherboard is being used and be unhappy with you and not want to work.

    I'm not sure about using a laptop HDD in a desktop... It's probably not going to give you very good performance, and you'd be better off going with the external HDDs and converting them into internal HDDs if you didn't want to get another drive. The OS thing can be solved by using the upgrade media to do a clean install when no windows is present: here's how. If you don't have your Vista or XP product key on hand, I believe that you can use belarc to retrieve the key off your system. Belarc should also work when retrieving stuff like Adobe Acrobat product keys and Microsoft Office product keys, but I haven't tried it myself.

    Quote from another member about doing a clean install of windows 7 from the upgrade disk
     
  11. Razgrad

    Razgrad Member

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    OK Guys, It took me quite a lot of time and efforts to open all the laptops and hard drives, also broke the case of the Seagate ( but I don't need it, If i am going to use it as Internal ), but I think was worth it. Ill post the pictures of what I've got. Them I hope you will tell me what to do.
    Once again - If possible, I would rather not spend money on hdd, So i can have more for CPU, Video and mobo ....
    OK here are the links, On top of each I'll writ from where it is.

    1: My New Sony Vaio HDD with Windows Vista on It. Cover + data connection view

    http://prikachi.com/images.php?images/870/2731870G.jpg
    http://prikachi.com/images.php?images/874/2731874p.jpg

    2: Мy old Vaio HDD, with Windows XP on it. Cover + data connection view

    http://prikachi.com/images.php?images/871/2731871V.jpg
    http://prikachi.com/images.php?images/872/2731872s.jpg

    3: My Buffalo 1TB External Hard Drive! Cover Only

    http://prikachi.com/images.php?images/875/2731875c.jpg


    4: My Seagate 1TB external Hard Drive! Cover Only

    http://prikachi.com/images.php?images/876/2731876o.jpg

    Just in case, I will also upload RAR file with all the pictures I took this evening.
    Download RAR file from HERE

    NOTE ! While i was looking for the hard drives, I found 2 stickers on the back cover of the Laptops with the serial keys. I don't know if they are still valid , but they should be... Although there should be a way to verify ?!?

    Also From what I am seeing and thinking, The old XP Hdd is with old connector, so the thing with swapping hard drives is canceled. Question stays - Is there a chance to use one of the External Drives ?
     
    Last edited: 6 Dec 2010
  12. Valo

    Valo Active Member

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    if you are a student you can get a windows 7 upgrade for 30 pounds its well worth it. Regardless of that I would urge you to get Win 7 as performance gain over vista and xp is quite significant with new builds. These drives appear to be regular SATA desktop drives, you can use them inside of your new rig without any troubles.

    there is no point in using the laptop hdds tho, the first one is sata and will work but is probably really slow. The second one (win xp) requires and adapter to use with desktop motherboards and is not worth the hassle anyway (its just 60 gigabytes)
     
  13. Marine-RX179

    Marine-RX179 New Member

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    One reason I don't recommend the new Corsair CX builder series is that there is no review on them, and they are NOT made by Seasonic like their other lines of PSU and while it 'claims' to be up to 80% efficiency, it is not 80plus certified, plus the Corsair CX only offer 2 years warranty, whereas the CM GX 650W has 5 years warranty.

    The Antec Earthwatts 500W might be a dated product, but I recall Custom PC/bit-tech had good review for this PSU. So if you don't need the extra watts, you could get this instead. Alternatively, there's also this which is a modular:
    http://www.ebuyer.com/product/152009

    As for the external hard-drive, judging from the pictures...the Western Digital Caviar Green is 5,400rpm, and the Seagate is 7,200rpm, so I think it would be ok to use Seagate as the operating drive and the WD Green as the secondary drive. But as I said Seagate hard-drive is not exactly the most reliable, so if you got anything important that you would want to keep or cannot affort to lose, save them on the WD Green drive instead.

    Since you don't need to get new hard-drive, you don't have to pay the extra £40 so the total is still at around £400; may be you should consider getting a copy of Windows 7 64-bits? I doubt the installed XP/Vista on your Vaio drives are reusable. Personally I would just go for the Win7 Retail for £90:
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002DUCMT2/
    or Windows 7 64-bit OEM:
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-O...JO4M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291617283&sr=8-1

    or like Valo said if you are a student, have a look to see if you can get it for £30.
     
    Last edited: 6 Dec 2010
  14. Dae314

    Dae314 New Member

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    I'm with Marine on the HDD issue. Using the external HDDs as internal HDDs would be the best idea. The laptop HDDs have too many ways to not work out, and the laptop HDD will be slow anyway =/. Use one of your external HDDs as your main drive and the second as a backup as marine suggested. Then use Belarc to get the serial codes or call microsoft and get windows to do a clean install from an upgrade disk as that would be the cheapest option.
     
  15. Marine-RX179

    Marine-RX179 New Member

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    Razgrad I'm not sure if you can see this in time, but scan's 'today only' offer has the Antec True Power 650W for just £57.56. If you can place your order before they update to different items for 'today only' offers tomorrow, you would be able to buy it at £57.56 rather than the usual price of £70.

    You have to click on the "Buy" for the Antec True Power 650W on the "today only" page instead of the item page to get the discounted price:
    http://www.scan.co.uk/TodayOnly/Index.aspx
     
  16. Razgrad

    Razgrad Member

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    Many People told me, that the 64 Bit machines and many games don't like each other. Is that true ? Also I don't know after all the posts, what PSU should I Buy. If I take the Antec Earthwatts 500W will it be enough, as you already know what Do I have to plug. If not, then which one of the rest is well-rated ?

    OK after 3 hours in searching and trying to fit into budget I came up to here :
    Before I post the basket, I have to ask Do I need the cables that I bought? Also Do i need the USB Wireless Stick that I bought, or my MOBO has wireless? I can not access the router via the cable. I live in a shared house.
    NOTE: In the basket, my case costs 42.47 using Ebuyer. But the same case in Scan is 31.13, so I will buy the case separately from Scan, and all the other parts from Ebuyer. ( or I am wrong ? )

    [​IMG]

    and HERE is a link for the case from Scan


    Also Do I need to buy Power Cable to feed the CPU or it comes with it ? Also Do I need to buy anymore fans ?
    And lastly - what is the cheapest and reliable option for a hard drive to boot from (in case something is wrong with my 1th seagate that I have )
    Oh my ..... another question - Do I have to format my SeaGate before I install OS on it? Because there are only about 50Gb free in it, but I have about 600 Gb free in the WesternDigital. But If no format is needed, I can simply transfer most of the data on the WD, and leave some 100 GB for Windows and the rest of the space to split into separate partition. Will that be possible , Or I have to Format it ? If I have to format, Then obviously I will have to delete some stuff ( I have plenty of not needed things...)

    Thanks guys, I know that I become annoying with all my questions and noobness, But you are my "last stop" before clicking the buy Button, and get something That Is completely messed up.
    I appreciate all of your efforts !
     
  17. Razgrad

    Razgrad Member

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    I just checked your Post Marine. After I click on Buy button on the Today Only items, I still get +VAT on the price, so It comes up to 66. But anyway.
    So here is the final Layout, are you going to approve it Guys ?
    The total amount comes to : 459.21
    [​IMG]
    +
    [​IMG]

    Still waiting for the answers of the questions. Will try to order it before 23:30. Please any opinions by then ....
     
  18. Marine-RX179

    Marine-RX179 New Member

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    The price for the Antec TruePower 650W PSU on scan is £57.56 is already Inc VAT. as listing, the extra you were seeing is the carriage+carriage's VAT.

    Both the the scan and ebuyer lists seem fine, but I think you should get two or three more 120mm fans for your case, as the case only comes with one default blue-LED fan at front intake. You can add two to top exhaust, and one to bottom middle as intake...but it's up to you. If you are adding a fan to the bottom as intake, you would need to get a 120mm dust filter as well.
    120mm fans you can get these:
    http://www.scan.co.uk/products/120mm-akasa-ak-191sm-near-silent-smokey-grey-value-case-fan
    or these:
    http://www.ebuyer.com/product/151390
    Dust filter (for the bottom middle intake):
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Akasa-120mm-F...ay.co.uk/Akasa-120mm-Fan-Filter-/300491059733

    PSU will have connectors for powering the CPU, motherboard and graphic card. If you not sure what goes where when you build your PC, make a topic and ask for advise.

    And no the motherboard doesn't have wireless.

    As for 64-bit compatabilitiy with application and software, Windows 7 don't really have this problem...unlike Vista or XP 64-bit. And if you are installing Windows 7, I would recommend you copy things you want to keep from your Seagate to your Western Digital Drive, and then if you just go through the Windows 7 installation process, you should select "Custom installation" when prompted, and then you will get to the part which it will allow you to manage your drives such as creating and deleting partitions, formating the partition etc, you can then format your Seagate drive there. I would suggest you just format/delete the old partition(s), and create two partitions, one with just 50GB, and the other with the remaining space. The 50GB partition is for installing the Windows 7 (and whatever application you want to install later if you choose to). The benefit of this is should you need to reinstall Windows again in the future, you can just format the 50GB partition and do a clean install, without having to touch or affect the secondary partition (900GB something).

    But for the process of installing the Windows 7, I would advise you to only connect your Seagate Drive but not your Western Digital Drive, so you will know the hard-drive you see during installing is definitely the Seagate, and you won't format or delete partition of your Western Digital drive by mistake.

    If the Seagate doesn't work properly, you could get the Samsugn F3 1TB:
    http://www.ebuyer.com/product/173804
     
    Last edited: 6 Dec 2010
  19. Razgrad

    Razgrad Member

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    Will there be sata cables coming with the mobo ? Or i should get the separately?
    Also what about my other questions :) Anyway in 30 min I will buy the items. + the 2 Fans and 1 filter
     
  20. Marine-RX179

    Marine-RX179 New Member

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    Yes there will be SATA cables with the motherboard, but no sure is it 2 or 3. Considering you will need 3 in total (two hard-drive and one DVD-Rewriter), I think you should buy 1 more just in case.

    As for fans, it would be good if you can get 3 in total...2 for top exhaust, 1 for bottom middle intake.
     
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