Equipment Travel Camera Choice

OK, an update of sorts but I'm still undecided.
Photography not going well is not really solved by buying new kit, as what's behind the camera that counts most.
Buuuuuuuuut that's far to rational and GAS has kicked in...

I sensibly went to the last remaining camera shop locally and had a look at a used GX 80 with 12-32 lens and a Nikon Z50 with 16-50 lens and a Fuji X-S20 as these had been recommended as lighter flexible travel cameras.

The GX80 was nice, more solid than I had expected. As a spectacle wearer the EVF wasn't great and
a bit lacking as suggested in some reviews.
I then tried a Fuji X-S20, which didn't grab me any more than the X-T1. The controls were less traditional, but not enough to sway me.

The Nikon Z50 was a pleasant surprise, as it has been talked down as the runt of the litter with a very limited lens selection.
The EVF was in a different class and way easier to see, the 16-50 pancake zoom worked really well despite the small maximum apertures, and the potentially bulky handgrip was really ergonomic and made it really steady to hold.
Sadly that one has just sold, so I have more thinking time.

I kept thinking that a used Z5 or cheaper Z6 both with IBIS could be useful and better in low light, but the FF lenses are almost all huge and heavy, getting me away from the main remit of lightness and portability.

The Z6 body alone is heavier than the Z50 + 16-50 DX lens

Any thoughts and suggestions?

I want a light carry all day kit, and the Z50 for all its faults will do that job well with one or both kit zooms. Not looked at a GX8 yet, and didn't like the Olympus SLR style MFT bodies when I had a look.

 

Not sure about your budget, but if it was my money, I would take the Fuji, Fuji Colours and Glass is just superb.

The GX8 is a good bit of kit, albeit old now, Massive lens choice, and Both Panasonic and Olympus make good glass.

I can't comment on the Z50, but I love my z7ii, Lens choice is larger than you think, you can adapt using the FTZ adaptor and use older F-Mount (Which is my plan)

Odd ball choice. Canon EOS R10/7. I would need to check, but i'm sure both have Dual Pixel AF, but Canon's RF Lenses are solid, and with an adapter, EF Lenses.

Sam

 

Thanks Sam, I haven't bonded with the Fuji TBH, the old school controls aren't as appealing as they seem. The well loved Fuji colour isn't doing it for me, the choice of great glass is a draw.
I have been a Nikon user since the D1x and the Z50 seemed comfortable with familiar handling and menus.
As you say, lens choice is pretty good these days for Z DX with a little research. Firmware updates have made it better than on release and the cmsin gripe has been supposed lack of lenses. The 16-50 is slow but well reckoned for IQ and unbeatable for portability.
Ironically MPB have Z6 bodies cheaper than Z5s, just the cost a new type of card and reader.
The Z50 has a flash which is handy.
On paper lack of IBIS is annoying, but I've not had a, camera with it so far.
I still haven't seen the GX8, so need to bother a friend to look at theirs.

 

For travel camera, weight would be my main concern. Although full frame is very nice, it adds weight and then more weight for the big lenses.

I had Nikon and Canon full frames, all nice but fed up with the weight. I bought the Fuji x100 as second camera to try for a lighter 2 camera 2 prime setup, loved almost everything about the x100. So I researched micro4/3 and Fujifilm APS-C, ultimately decided on Fujifilm system for the colours. Nowadays mostly shoot with the fantastic F2.8-4 "kit lens". The sensor isn't as dreamy as x100 that started it all, but the AF is much more usable with an energetic toddler.

Depends on how much you want to slim down. Micro4/3 should still offer most of image quality at a much more portable size and weight. Smaller sensor also allows you to buy faster glass and get reasonable shots without everything totally out of focus. It's a travel camera after all, the background is just as important.

Stabilisation sound nice, but fast glass gets the shot. It all depends on what you shoot when travelling.

 

Thanks wyx, I think you're right about weight being the primary factor for travel.

That's why I started with the Lumix GX80/12-32 combo, with the GX8 as a possible.

The GX80 EVF put me off as it's 16:9 and not easy to see fully with glasses on.
GX8 is still an uknown as I haven't handled one, but its OLED EVF is better regarded.

The Z50 weighs about the same as my X-T1 and is a tad bulkier with the deeper handgrip. That handgrip is a benefit as it allows more stable hand holding than some of the slim and less grippy MFT bodies.

The Z50 16-50mm lens is intriguing as it's so slim and light, putting it firmly in the travel category along with the matching 50-250mm.
The downside of course is the limited maximum aperture of f3.5-6.3, mitigated with VR.

The new Z 24mm f1.7 DX lens would be handy in low light, as would the beautiful Voigtlander 23/1.2 Z which goes along with your "
Stabilisation sound nice, but fast glass gets the shot. It all depends on what you shoot when travelling."
Ironically, the impressive and well regarded Fuji 18-55 f2.8-4 is the downside of my Fuji combo, being bulkier and a lot heavier!

Maybe I need to persevere more with the Fuji menus and colour science, I haven't looked at what's good for processing Fuji X Trans files recently.

I'm still struggling with the change from Photoshop to Affinity Photo, where nothing if familiar or works in the same way!

Thank you both for your input, it's good to get ideas without being immersed in a toxic fanboy environment.

It's the opportunity to have a sort out, as I do TV really need an APS-C DSLR and APS-C MIRROLESS camera.
For reference, I have access to a couple of Nikon lenses in the family, plus a couple of Nikon AI lenses from the old days.

 

It looks to me like you've already got your heart on the Nikon, Familiarity with the system, and access to lenses, does seem like a no brainer to me.

For me, Not having IBIS is a deal breaker, it does seem odd that Nikon didn't install it in the Z50, which would force you upto the Z5/6/7/8/9 bodies. I miss the flip out screen of the X-H1, and the tilt only on the Z7ii really urks me, but it wasn't a deal breaker. The Z5 does have 5 Axis sensor stabilisation, the Z50 doesn't. The extra 200g in weight, gains you that IBIS, Full Frame and 24mp, apposed to 20, That 200g in weight reduction does also save you (depending where you look) £300.

The X-S20, is £100 more than the Z5, Is lighter than the Z50, and has a higher res, albeit 26mp APSC sensor.

Not sure about weather sealing on any of the bodies either, but all 3 will be fine in a sudden shower.

Sam

 

The Nikon was a pleasant surprise as I thought it would be too bulky to be in the running before I handled it.
So, it's in the running on the basis that my Fuji and Nikon DSLR would both go.

I tried an X-S20 in the shop as an X-S10 substitute and wasn't that taken with it.

My concern with the Z5 and other FF models is that 200g is the thin end of the wedge weight wise as many of the Z lenses other than short primes and the lightweight 24-50mm will be a lot heavier and bulkier.
No hurry to choose yet, I'll get out more with the X-T1 to push it further. The compact XC 15-45mm is a good fit other than the power zoom. The XC 50-230mm would make up a full range kit and be a fair compromise on the road.

Nice problem to have and no pressure,

 

Capture One seems to be okay for processing Fuji raw, you can download a free 'Fuji' version of it.
I ummed an aahed a lot about which system to go for, whether to keep some darn good lenses and get adapters or just change completely to a new system. I was after lightweight, smaller - that was the end goal. I wasn't sure what to go for so watched and read a lot of opinions and tutorials on how to get the best, what features, etc for some time. I'd only had Nikon dslr's which are fantastic, but heavy.
The video that finally clinched the deal for me was this one: - and I can't quite believe how far cameras have come. I've dialled in settings and absolutely love the X-T3. I've found I prefer manually focusing using the red peak option and having back button focus is a game changer. Being able to program the buttons so you have quick access to different styles of shooting - it sounds a right old game but realisation dawns you can really stretch your photographic legs with such options. Of course, that's not to say equivalent other models are any bad or worse, it depends completely on what you want, but I have to say I'm smitten with my Fuji.

 

What's wrong with smart phone for travelling? It's always with you, it's super light and takes good enough photos. These days some even come with 3 lenses to cover all bases.

Of course, there are still niche cases where a phone cannot do. It all depends on what you want to shoot.

Do you really need that 200mm reach when travelling? Feels like 15-45mm should be able to cover most cases. Don't let technically perfect get in the way of having a good time.

Before having kid and ultrawide and computational photography on smart phones, I slimmed my gear down to x100, plus 10-24 and 60 macro. The 55-200 never gets used except for airshows. I typically shoot landscape, person and travel documenting. Seems to work well for my travels to 4 continents.
After kid, I slimmed my gear further by only using the kit lens and smart phone for ultrawide.

 

Definitely not what you want to hear, but I'd agree with the above - smartphone camera all the way. You simply can't beat it for portability vs convenience and image quality. Depending on what phone you have, there may even be the option of shooting in RAW with full manual camera control, which is at least worth looking at if you haven't already.

Here's a wee anecdote: you may remember that I also own (or owned) a D7000 with 16-85mm VR lens. Well, I took it up a mountain in May this year to get some more bonkers photos of the wintry Scottish landscape. On my way back down the mountain, near the summit, I stupidly perched the camera on a big rock thinking it was fine, and I accidentally knocked it with my leg and the camera tumbled down the side of the mountain into the abyss several hundred metres below. Gone. Forever. Along with all the photos I had taken. Mercifully, I had also taken a handful of snaps with my Galaxy S21, and they now serve as the only remaining images of my hike.

If I hadn't told you any of the above, would you look at these photos and think, "Jeez, if only he had a proper mirrorless camera, the images would be so much better"? EH, I THINK NOT, SONNY JIM.

(Please shed a tear for Lenny's D7000 which has since been replaced with...another D7000).

Almost at the summit:


View from the top.


The descent, moments before I lost my camera (and yeah, it was really friggin' steep)...

 

Your original camera will probably turn up in 50 years or so and your pics will be plastered all over the local press, asking "who dis?"

 

I think you need to "rope in" some buddies with climbing gear and "mount" a rescue mission.

(In all seriousness, is it accessible via tricky adventurous abseil?).

 

Tears duly shed from a fellow D7000 owner, what a sad end

Weeeeeeeellllllll..... I'm in the opposite situation to you now, Lenny.

I lost my phone completely a couple of weeks ago and am rethinking what I need from a phone. I have had Samsung phones for the last 10 years, but may look closer at what in Android has the best cameras this time.

I am still disappointed with photos at night from my phone, and would want a dedicated camera with a larger sensor to cover that.

I take your point fully about having a phone with you at all times and that image quality is vastly better these days than even a few years ago.

Computational photography has managed to get round a lot of the problems associated with tiny sensors.

As mentioned at the start, it's not necessarily a new camera to take travelling, but something that gets me carrying a good camera more regularly and taking photos with more thought.

The D7000 is good, but neither it or the Fuji X-T1 work quite right for me. It is really personal and if you're comfortable with the kit it becomes unconscious to use well.

So, I do want/need a new camera and am happy to use a phone to take photos too.

 

I can only speak for myself -

Phones are clunky for me to hold, especial when trying to take photos... I always feel i'm as likely to drop the phone as take a photo.

The sheer amount of image processing that goes on to reconcile the various sensors leads to two gripes, the delay between me hitting the button and it taking the photo, and the phone is, by dint of all that image processing and now ai and all that guff, offering up the photo it thinks I wanted and not what I was actually trying to take.

 

I do get that artificial feel you speak of, and think I can do a better photo.
Each to their own. It's a simple case where some people are happy to carry around the bulk, some are happy to settle.

 

@Arboreal these are fair points. Whilst camera phone IQ has come on in leaps and bounds, it's still not a patch on what you get from a larger sensor. Not long ago I was ogling the Nikon D4 as an ideal upgrade from my D7000. Realistically, there is no need for me to take a D4 over a D7000, but damn all that full frame IQ at a fraction of the original cost (somewhere in the region of £5K for the body).

If practicality is your main concern, definitely go for the combo that you find most comfortable. It's great that you've been to a shop and have held the cameras. This is something I used to do about 15+ years ago when I went to Jessops to buy stuff, and I had the added bonus of mates with cameras who'd let me borrow their gear, so I typically had extensive experience with a body or lens before I owned it myself. I wouldn't get too hung up on things like "better low-light performance" as these stats are often overhyped by pixel-peepers and won't make any real difference once the pics are processed.

Sounds like the Z50 would be a good starting point, even if you decide somewhere down the line to get something more capable.

 

Thanks Lenny, I was spoiled for 17 years working at a pro camera shop and got to use lots of lovely kit for free.
I didn't buy much, which is probably a mistake as I had minimal kit when I moved jobs.

I have a friend with a Z6, and will have a go with that to check the weight and size.

Even the right MFT would work, with a wide choice of lenses and body styles. The GX80 was not so easy to use as the EVF was tricky with wearing glasses. I'll keep looking and not rush into anything.
If I sell some kit first, that would help. I have a couple of old lenses that should sell well and a 5x4 camera that I will never use that ought to go.

Nikon were wise to keep the Z mount on the DX cameras unlike Canon who have split their effort again with 2 fittings.
That means I can go full frame if I want to later.

 

Another update…mission creep may have entered the chat!
I was in Southampton today so popped into London Camera Exchange to look at Nikon Z cameras.
They had a couple of Z50s and a Z6 and Z7.
The Z50 / 16-50 DX kit was nice and neat and the viewfinder as good as I remember. I then had a go with the Z6, which was a bit bulkier and noticeably heavier but the EVF view was bigger and clearer.
The Z50 kit and Z6 body were similar money and adding a lightweight 24-50 lens to the Z6 would be the way to make it portable and potentially affordable.
The IBIS, better EVF and controls are attractive on the Z6 but generally lenses will be bigger and more expensive once in the system.
Whether that rabbit hole is worthwhile I’m not sure, the Z6 maybe too heavy for lightweight travel.
The phone I’m using is worse camera wise than the one I lost, so I need to consider that part as a decent camera phone is essential whatever camera I may own.

 

FTZii Adapter for Nikon and older glass saves money, but adds weight.

I keep looking back at Fuji gear, the X-S10/20 as a second body... haha.

Sam

 

@samkiller42

Happy new Year Sam, thanks for keeping the photos posted for us.

Just seen this...If you're looking for a smaller body and don't have any Fuji lenses left, do have a look at the Z50.

I went into LCE in Southampton a few weeks ago and had a good look at their used Nikon selection, which included a Z50 and Z6.

I'm definitely more comfortable with the Nikon UI and will buy a Z50 or Z5, but haven't untangled it any better than that.

The Z50 is supremely portable and the 16-50 DX lens is a killer combo other than in low light, where the f6.63 max aperture at the long end hurts performance.

I think that a 24/1.7 Z DX would be a perfect low light partner for it as I have liked using 35mm on full frame as a one lens option.

I can't let go of the better EVF and IBIS on the Z5, that's at the expense of a heavier body and a shorter range portable kit zoom in the 24-50 Z.
The 24-70/4 is a much better lens but a lot larger and heavier for my travel requirements.