1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

News Valve researching games for the deaf

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by CardJoe, 17 Aug 2009.

  1. CardJoe

    CardJoe Freelance Journalist

    Joined:
    3 Apr 2007
    Posts:
    11,343
    Likes Received:
    292
  2. capnPedro

    capnPedro Hacker. Maker. Engineer.

    Joined:
    11 Apr 2007
    Posts:
    4,381
    Likes Received:
    241
    I quite often play without sound, and I can't imagine what could be added with signing that isn't available with closed captions....

    Oh, and Dog doesn't even have hands!
     
  3. yakyb

    yakyb i hate the person above me

    Joined:
    10 Oct 2006
    Posts:
    2,063
    Likes Received:
    30
    very interesting

    would be good to have a 15 minute section to teach the basics, also maybe parts later whereby the player must understand wht the NPC is saying in order to complete the level
     
  4. CardJoe

    CardJoe Freelance Journalist

    Joined:
    3 Apr 2007
    Posts:
    11,343
    Likes Received:
    292
    I think they aren't likely to plan it so that players have to understand sing language - but I get the impression from watching the videos that it'll be likely that Alyx will use sign language to communicate with either D0G or with a deaf character and you, as Gordon, will be watching the exchange and likely relying on subtitles (if anything). Watching Alyx argue with someone else through sign language for example, then having to translate everything back to Gordon to fill him in.

    Personally, I'd welcome that - it's an interesting idea and a brilliant addition to the tech. Would be fun to see the tables turned a little like that.
     
  5. Bauul

    Bauul Sir Bongaminge

    Joined:
    7 Apr 2007
    Posts:
    2,173
    Likes Received:
    38
    Well, Vavle were very proud of the auto lip-synching technology in the first version of Source (record the sound, and the engine calculates the lip movements accordingly). Presumably they're hoping to do something similar with this: enter the text, and the engine calculates the arm movements automatically. It'd have a lot of uses outside of Half-Life too, which I imagine is where Valve are thinking long term.
     
  6. Phil Rhodes

    Phil Rhodes Hypernobber

    Joined:
    27 Jul 2006
    Posts:
    1,415
    Likes Received:
    10
    It wouldn't actually do much for the deaf audience here in the UK - American and British Sign Language are almost completely different.

    I guess, though, if they're going to (presumably) motion capture it and have a virtual character do it, they could have more than one language track.
     
  7. crazyceo

    crazyceo New Member

    Joined:
    24 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    563
    Likes Received:
    8
    This actually sounds pretty cool. A practice option would be good especially for those stealth missions but any news on the developement of HL2:EP3 is good news.
     
  8. CardJoe

    CardJoe Freelance Journalist

    Joined:
    3 Apr 2007
    Posts:
    11,343
    Likes Received:
    292
    If the tech is there as Bauul suggests though then it could easily localise itself, assuming Valve don't cater to both as they currently do with other foreign languages.
     
  9. Adnoctum

    Adnoctum Kill_All_Humans

    Joined:
    27 Apr 2008
    Posts:
    486
    Likes Received:
    31
    I can tell you've never made a Source mod, because FacePoser isn't as automatic as you seem to think.
    In fact, the only auto part Valve has done is to provide the tool (Face Poser) and HL2 character phenomes, which you then have to sequence manually according to your best judgement of facial movements.
    And then it is a flaky bitch off her anti-psychotics as you try to troubleshoot why the &%@* it WON'T WORK!!! <demented screech - pulling of hair>
    Quite frankly, there are times I genuinely would rather be hit by a car and roll the dice on permanent injury than to use FacePoser.

    OTOH, exactly what you describe is used in Crytek's CryEngine2 (Crysis' engine), and it is so easy! Falling over and hitting your back-side easy. Paris Hilton easy!
     
  10. mclean007

    mclean007 Officious Bystander

    Joined:
    22 May 2003
    Posts:
    2,035
    Likes Received:
    15
    Interesting... I can imagine this spinning off into a future version of TV subtitles, with an overlaid avatar automatically converting the closed captions to signs. This could be done either at the TV station, with the rendered output overlaid on the picture as they currently do for certain programmes (e.g. Hollyoaks omnibus on T4 Sundays), or it could be rendered using hardware built into the TV. This would be a major selling point for TVs for deaf people. As a bonus, you'd be able to customise the signing variant used, and customise your avatar. How long before the first naked Lara Croft sign language avatar appears, is anyone's guess.

    Not being hearing impaired, I confess I don't really understand why signed programmes are more attractive to deaf people than subtitles, but I presume you can convey more information and/or emotion with signs than with subs? They might have to add additional metainfo to subs to allow effective addition of this information, but it would still surely allow a far greater amount of signed programming than there is currently?
     
  11. Ending Credits

    Ending Credits Bunned

    Joined:
    4 Jan 2008
    Posts:
    5,231
    Likes Received:
    210
    Um? Why would you want to convert the closed captions to sign language? :p

    I'm partially deaf so I like the subtitles (I can understand everything without them, it just allows me to be lazy) but I don't know sign language anyway so I can't really comment.

    The main problem with subtitles is they take a long time to write so pretty worthless for news/sports programs since there's always about 10-20 delay from the words spoken to the subtitles.
     
  12. bowman

    bowman Member

    Joined:
    7 Apr 2008
    Posts:
    362
    Likes Received:
    6
    Maybe the endless physics puzzles can be replaced with sign language learning. How awesome would that be, 'hey where'd you learn to sign', 'a video game'.
     
  13. Star*Dagger

    Star*Dagger New Member

    Joined:
    30 Nov 2007
    Posts:
    882
    Likes Received:
    11
    Awesome. Valve is at the forefront of so many aspects of PC Gaming.

    On a lighter note: I often play with apparently deaf people online, especially in TF2 when I am commanding the team and the do not go where I ordered.

    Yours in Louder is not better Plasma,
    Star*Dagger
     
  14. pizan

    pizan that's n00b-tastic

    Joined:
    25 Apr 2008
    Posts:
    300
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just another excuse to delay episode 3
     
  15. DXR_13KE

    DXR_13KE BananaModder

    Joined:
    14 Sep 2005
    Posts:
    9,088
    Likes Received:
    356
    interesting... this could be adapted in a huge number of fields, cool.
     
  16. Blademrk

    Blademrk Why so serious?

    Joined:
    21 Nov 2003
    Posts:
    3,935
    Likes Received:
    74
    As opposed to watching Justin on cbeebies ("Look a Robot! Can you sign 'Robot'?") - spent far to long watching cbeebies with my nephew :lol:

    It's a good idea (if they can get it to work)
     
  17. Bauul

    Bauul Sir Bongaminge

    Joined:
    7 Apr 2007
    Posts:
    2,173
    Likes Received:
    38
    Yes, because Valve deliberatly sets out not to release their product and do everything possible not to earn any money.
     
  18. Matticus

    Matticus ...

    Joined:
    23 Feb 2008
    Posts:
    3,342
    Likes Received:
    117
    So that's why its taking so long....

    In all seriousness, if the tech is being produced and could be used for a range of things outside of video gaming then its a worthwhile project to pursue. I have always fancied learning sign language, would look good on a CV. Now if I was being taught it by a video game character I would be a lot more inclined to pay attention.
     
  19. MrWillyWonka

    MrWillyWonka Chocolate computers galore!

    Joined:
    25 Jul 2004
    Posts:
    5,892
    Likes Received:
    12
    Absolutely, it would also make much more sense for Valve to actually use BSL (British Sign Language) Rather than ASL (American Sign Language) because ISL (International Sign Language) is much more similar to BSL than ASL. It is easily possible to communicate with others in Europe (and beyond) using ISL even though we don't speak the same language verbally (I have done it a number of times). So by using BSL or ISL you have a wider audience.

    Being profoundly deaf myself I am fortnuate to have very good English which cannot be said for the majority for profoundly deaf people (due to the fact their listening and speaking development as a kid is slower). Sign Language if put into words would not make much sense but the expression of it gives deaf signers (not all deaf people sign!) more information to them than words ever can. For a lot of deaf people subtitles do not make sense (because of their poorer English) so the development of sign languge in games would be a great thing, especially if one day there was an option to change subtitles and speech to sign language.

    Valve have won several awards for subtitling, Half Life 2 has excellent subtitling facilities which is different to HL1 which didn't have anything. http://www.deafgamers.com/ is a good website.

    Its already being done by IBM in Hursley - http://www.aboutmyplanet.com/videos/virtual-translator/

    Learn sign language? Many local colleges do evening courses, go to http://www.rnid.org.uk/ for mor info.
     
  20. HourBeforeDawn

    HourBeforeDawn a.k.a KazeModz

    Joined:
    26 Oct 2006
    Posts:
    2,637
    Likes Received:
    6
    I think its not for functionality but for visual appeal just another layer of the game for amusement. But still seems neat.
     
Tags: Add Tags

Share This Page