1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Windows Valve says DRM is stupid, but Microsoft still doesn't get it

Discussion in 'Gaming' started by steveo_mcg, 4 Dec 2008.

  1. steveo_mcg

    steveo_mcg New Member

    Joined:
    26 May 2005
    Posts:
    5,841
    Likes Received:
    80
    http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/pos...drm-stupid-microsoft-still-doesnt-get-it.html


    Whilst I agree with Gabe, its difficult to see how he can take the moral high ground when Steam is the most intrusive DRM employed at the moment.

    Let me finish. I like steam i feel its benefits out weigh the downsides but lets face it steam is a very intrusive program which needs to be running all the time you want to game, though at least it can be exited when you don't need it and removed when your finished.
     
  2. UncertainGod

    UncertainGod Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18 Oct 2007
    Posts:
    1,424
    Likes Received:
    26
    Steam isn't anywhere near as intrusive as other forms of DRM, plus it provides value-added services like the community chat and the store itself, yes Valve could make the app a little quicker to load up and less of a system hog but other than that have no problem with the system at all.
     
  3. Fod

    Fod what is the cheesecake?

    Joined:
    26 Aug 2004
    Posts:
    5,802
    Likes Received:
    133
    intrusive DRM? not really. it doesn't take over your system like securom, for one. it's not an overly heavyweight app either, so leaving it running in the systray isn't going to harm your computing experience (hint: your OS does do this little thing called paging. if an app isn't being actively used, it's paged onto your disk, freeing memory!)

    while some may not agree with the 'once it's yours, it's yooooourrrsss foreeeeeverrrrr' model i'm actually fine with that; and i just love the way i can log onto anyone's machine with steam installed and play my games, with my settings, and my saves.
     
  4. themax

    themax New Member

    Joined:
    2 Dec 2005
    Posts:
    1,060
    Likes Received:
    3
    I don't find Steam instrusive at all. It's a very good form of DRM. I like the overlay Steam provides while I am playing my games so I can send and receive messages, or check for games my group could be hosting. It doesn't limit the number of installs, and I can take it anywhere figuratively speaking (assuming they have a decent Internet connection). I think Valve should be able to take the high ground because atleast they managed to make their DRM non intrusive and it does work far better than the likes of SecureRom. And most PC gamers these days are in an always connected state for internet, so only in the interrim when they suffer outtage does Steam really become a pain.
     
  5. steveo_mcg

    steveo_mcg New Member

    Joined:
    26 May 2005
    Posts:
    5,841
    Likes Received:
    80
    The point i was making with steam is that it is very in your face and the drm needs an app to run where as a system like securom is a subtle back ground process and and most people claim they've never even noticed it working. Personally i've only installed a game with it once and spent the next hour trying to get rid of it.

    So yes steam is a bigger advantage than it is a liability but its still intrusive and it is still drm. If you want the moral high ground see stardock.
     
  6. tranc3

    tranc3 ADHD Modder

    Joined:
    16 Jul 2007
    Posts:
    1,622
    Likes Received:
    13
    Thus why, i mostly only buy valve games.
     
  7. Bauul

    Bauul Sir Bongaminge

    Joined:
    7 Apr 2007
    Posts:
    2,173
    Likes Received:
    38
    If you read the article, the "dumb" part was refering to overaly harsh DRM that limits players without adding to their experience. Given something like SecuROM does nothing but limit, but Steam does a good amount of experience adding, I don't think you can argue with Gabe.
     
  8. eeevan

    eeevan Dremel Master

    Joined:
    21 Oct 2007
    Posts:
    313
    Likes Received:
    5
    "Personally i've only installed a game with it once and spent the next hour trying to get rid of it."

    Then do you honestly feel you have enough credibility/experience to put a statement like "most intrusive DRM employed at the moment" forward.

    Statement != opinion.
    Careful.
     
  9. Burnout21

    Burnout21 Is the daddy!

    Joined:
    9 Sep 2005
    Posts:
    8,614
    Likes Received:
    197
    When HL:2 first came out i hated the idea of steam, the way that you could only install via a broadband connection, and considering broadband was very new in the UK, it pissed me off.

    but all that is in the past, yes there have been some problems with lan parties where people forget to update and disconnect the night before the party so we can all play but thats are fault.

    I havent yet to experience 'SecuROM' and with the pending purchase of GTA IV i am now worried about what i could be getting into, shudder!
     
  10. themax

    themax New Member

    Joined:
    2 Dec 2005
    Posts:
    1,060
    Likes Received:
    3
    I wouldn't say it's so much that SecuROM gets in the way of playing Burnout21. And with GTA IV especially there is no install limit. What bugs us the most is that SecuROM buries itself so deep in your system that getting rid of it all after uninstalling said game is a pain, and for techies that maintain their systems, I know that drives folks up the wall.
     
  11. steveo_mcg

    steveo_mcg New Member

    Joined:
    26 May 2005
    Posts:
    5,841
    Likes Received:
    80
    Wrong, my good man, my statement does equal my opinion. ergo statement==opinion which i'm quite entitled to.

    Statement != Fact

    And i think you have missed the point entirely, I install one game riddled with secrom then spent and hour trying to get rid of securom since its bloody insidious.

    @Baul: good point. never looked at it that way.
     
  12. boiled_elephant

    boiled_elephant Whitelist Bit-Tech in your adblock!

    Joined:
    14 Jul 2004
    Posts:
    6,007
    Likes Received:
    472
    Completely agree. The main benefit of Steam, if you move around a lot, is being able to reinstall all your games in the background as soon as you get internet access. Honestly, I wouldn't mind having all my games owned and managed by steam.

    But as uncertaingod said, the software itself is a bit sluggish. Well, very sluggish, and bug-riddled. But I still love the idea...
     
  13. Jordan Wise

    Jordan Wise Baby called to see the boss...

    Joined:
    24 Jul 2007
    Posts:
    597
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ah, so we've all started to merge English with programming, the machine revolution may happen sooner than I thought...
     
  14. Amon

    Amon inch-perfect

    Joined:
    1 Jun 2007
    Posts:
    2,467
    Likes Received:
    2
    Where the hell is everybody getting this "Steam is resource hog" ******** from? This program skips a bit when using its integrated browser, but it's not banking your system resources as you game. Some of the Steam games would chew on memory, but the platform, itself, hardly registers a heartbeat for what its handling: your games library, instant messaging service, and live play statistics.
     
    Last edited: 7 Dec 2008
  15. boiled_elephant

    boiled_elephant Whitelist Bit-Tech in your adblock!

    Joined:
    14 Jul 2004
    Posts:
    6,007
    Likes Received:
    472
    It's slow, I think is what people mean. Certainly what I mean. And on older systems, like the socket A rig I just moved up from, it does kinda swamp your processor when you first start it.

    My main problem with it is all the random unresponsiveness, though - sometimes, launching games, it just gets to "Lanching [title]..." and sticks there indefinitely, doesn't run the game. And when updating or installing content in the background, it almost always sticks and doesn't download anything until I prompt it into life by trying to run the game in question, whereupon it 'remembers' that it's meant to be downloading it and resumes.

    Just really buggy. For what it does, it could conceivably be a much cleaner, lighter program.
     
  16. knuck

    knuck Hate your face

    Joined:
    25 Jan 2002
    Posts:
    7,668
    Likes Received:
    302
    only thing I hate about steam is how long it takes to switch from one account to another. My games are on two different accounts and whenever I have to switch I have to wait about a minute before I can see the log on window
     
  17. Spaceraver

    Spaceraver Ultralurker

    Joined:
    19 Jan 2006
    Posts:
    1,363
    Likes Received:
    5
    Yes.
    Steam could be lighter. Way lighter. But that would mean no skin support, no browser, no IM'ing.
    For all I care I could live without the browser. As long as you could get an addin/extension for your current browser it would be fine. a link inside steam to the steam store would do. And I am sure that someday it will get better. But for the moment Valve are doing well enough. multiple times better than most winy publishers that claim they need invasive DRM to "protect their games".
    So here's to those downloads that I will never own. Or will pirate just to piss off the publisher and show them SecuROM sucks anyway. Stick with Steam.
     
  18. Jordan Wise

    Jordan Wise Baby called to see the boss...

    Joined:
    24 Jul 2007
    Posts:
    597
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am impressed that Gabe Newell answered that guy directly though. He says on the L4D commentary that he does read every email that gets sent to him, I thought he was just saying that though
     

Share This Page