Education We Like to Ride Bicycles

As I posted a while back I've found myself in a new job recently, which is just wonderful! One of the perks of my new position is that I am encouraged (indeed: required) to test-ride all that we have on offer, and given the nature of the shop I work for this means riding some quite interesting bikes. As such this is what I decided to steal for the weekend:


Surly Karate Monkey with a rather special addition to the rear end.


If you're at all familiar with the IGH (Internally Geared Hub) scene then you'll know what this is: a Nuvinci N360. If you're not, think of it as one of the most technologically advanced bits of kit in the cycling world at the moment; basically a CVT for bikes. They're silly expensive, heavy, and offer an unhindered, unlimited range of gearing - but more on this later. In the spirit of my usual postings within this thread I will give you a brief write up of my thoughts on what I'm riding, if only to give my fingers some exercise as they traipse across my keyboard.

Lets get the basics out of the way and into the open first: the bike is very solid with some well sourced gear on. Velocity rims, Elixir 5 brakes, RockShox Reba Race 29'er fork, Truvativ Stylo cranks/stem/bar, Straitline grips, FSA post, WTB seat, and Schwalbe Racing Ralph tyres, so by no means take what I am about to say without considering this first. From my perspective the bike is slow and absolutely terrible to ride. Quite honestly I can only stand to be on it for a few minutes before wanting - desperately - to get on another bike. It's hard to explain, bit it feels like the bike is fighting me through inefficiency and just being unintuitive in general.

Why would this be? Nothing that is equipped onto this frame is a compromise by any stretch of the imagination, nor would one argue that any one single component is "cheap" by most metrics. Well, I feel it comes down squarely onto the rear hub, which I was so hoping it wouldn't as this is a product I've been wanting to have in my hands for the past several years to the point where I can quite clearly remember longingly drooling over it - and the technology inside it - in magazines well before it's release. Everything about this hub makes me love it, but it's operation is enough to make a very respectable bike feel like utter tripe. This is not what I was hoping for by any means, and I've spent much time in the saddle doing my best to convince myself otherwise.

Alas, let's go through everything this hub does wrong, then see if we can pull anything worthwhile out of it to somehow redeem it.

The first strike against the hub would be installation: the instructions are terrible and inconsistent. I've been working in or around a bike shop for well over a decade now, but I couldn't make heads nor tails of the instructions provided (saying nothing of the fact that a few of the pictures show the exact opposite of what the instructions state). This is only further made intolerable by the fact that if you remove the wheel and you're not careful, then the entire shifting mechanism will fall off the hub onto the ground, wherein you'll very quickly loose some or all of the tiny little intermediary gears that drive the shifting mechanism. And obviously there is nothing in the instructions as to how this unit goes back together leaving you to guess and hope you've got it right. But we'll ignore that for now and move onto the actual shifting.

There are a few things about the shifting that immediately strike me: stiction, feedback (not in a good way), lack of tactile feedback, forced grip-shift operation, and exaggerated hand movement. Most of these issues can be directly attributed to the poor quality, proprietary shifter, pictured below.



I will admit that it is very cool how the little orange line and the orientation of the little orange bicycle will change dependant upon where you are within the range, but this is just minor aesthetic charm and doesn't gloss over the poor operation. The stiction is quite obviously caused by the full-length, double shifter cable operation required by this hub; there is no spring to return the shifting carrier on the hub back to a neutral position, meaning that whichever cable you're presently pulling on (irrespective of whether you're shifting up or down) has to not just shift the hub, but it also has to drag the other shifter cable. This doubles the amount of perceived stiction from the housing, making everything feel very poor and very cheap as a result. If you are going to blame the cables I should mention that they are freshly installed and of quality construction, only exhibiting the typical stiction caused by full-length housing.

More annoying than the stiction would be the terrible friction and locking cause by shifting under any sort of load. Yes it's all well and good to have proper shifting technique, it was promised that there would be unhindered shifting performance whilst under load with this hub. I've not experienced this. Rather, whenever the hub is under any sort of load from pedalling forces the shifting is quite stiff and almost impossible to operate. But this is OK, because the leverage over the cables is massive thanks - once again - to the poor shifter design! You know how with a typical grip-shift system you can get through the entire gear range in a single motion? Well not so much. A full arc of my wrist only yielded about a quarter to a third of the entire range, meaning that sudden terrain changes were awkward at best. I can only imagine that this leverage was required to overcome not just the stiction but also the binding in the hub itself when under load, or the inexplicable binding in mid range.

This exaggerated hand movement lead to my inability to quickly recall placement of the shifter for terrain selection. When you are forced to release your grip and shift your hand to continue through the gear range, predicting where you are within the range and how much you need to move for optimal gearing is difficult to say the least. I will admit that it could very well be my expectation to subconsciously predict within the range where I am due to the physical number of shifter clicks, and the knowledge that I can be at an exact gear-inch with a certain, precise number of clicks in one direction or another, but it is still a hindrance to adoption that I cannot rapidly recall positional placement due to the exaggerated nature of the shifting range. Further compounding this could very well be the reversed nature of the shifters mechanism (if you've used a grip-shift from the past twenty years you'll know which direction they work - imagine that reversed and you've got it right). It should also be quite obvious that due to grip-shift, one cannot shift under breaking (important in certain situations), or on overly rough terrain without some experience with the system.

All of that would be forgiveable if it felt solid enough under your feed and offered a good pedalling platform. Well, not so much, no. In the lower third of the range it's a squishy, muddy wreck (imagine if your chain was a bungee cord), and the reaction is slow and wandering. When accelerating off the line within any part of the range you can feel the pawls in the freehub engaging solidly, but there is then a sloppy pause before the hub engages leaving you putting more effort into the hub than you otherwise would as a result (it is a very disorienting experience and only serves to make the bike feel as though it's broken somehow). This feeling is only exemplified within the lower (easier) part of the range, as more than a quarter of your pedal stroke is taken up by this reactionary stage. Thus when you are crawling up a steep, loose hill you're often left with a very inconsistent pedal stroke, and the traction issues resultant.

If you've ridden a bike with a very flat tyre, you'll know what this feeling is; if you've ridden with a partially broken chain, you'll know the feeling; if you've ridden with a broken frame, you'll know the feeling; if you've ridden with very loose spokes, you'll know the feeling. Needless to say, this is less than confidence building.

So what's good about it? I've said quite a lot about what I hate, but is there anything good about this system? Surprising as it may sound if you've managed to read this far, there are some redeeming features, they're just hard to find. First and foremost whilst I don't personally get on with the grip-shift (or this particular variation of it), I know quite a few people who enjoy it for it's simplicity; to the right person this would be a boon. There is also how solid the hub feels (while coasting), which isn't typical of most IGH systems. I can also applaud the infinite nature of the gearing, allowing you to select the exact ratio you require without middling about choosing between two gears. The ultra-high flange style will also directly influence how strong the rear wheel will be, which is a good thing.

What I am trying to say is that if you've got a cargo bike or a commuting machine where light-weight and a solid feeling, snappy drive-train aren't at the top of your requirements, then this would be an excellent hub if you're prepared to wade through some performance issues and get used to a quite foreign and poorly thought-out shifting mechanism.

Unfortunately for me I'll be quite happy to return this bike to my shop on Tuesday, using one of my personal bikes for a ride tomorrow. This hub just goes to prove the old adage true: never meet your hero's.



As an aside: please let me know if you enjoyed this write-up, as I've quite a few other bikes to test from the shop and wouldn't at all mind doing some more writing like this.

 

While I didn't understand a fair amount of it (due to having no interest in the product) Was a nice writeup, always nice to read what someone (especially someone such as yourself who spends a large deal of their time working with/riding bikes) thinks of new hardware

 

got out on the bike properly for the first time this year the other week. Only a short run say 15 miles but felt good to be out till i found some mud :s Conti travel contacts are amazingly useless even on compacted earth so i was dancing about all over the shop dodging the millions of dog walkers and the incredibly long leads.
Ive realised that my rubbish 1.75 effectively slicks needed changing so picked up some Schwalbe BlackJacks not exactly bank breaking but somewhat more grippy than the contis and a hell of a lot wider at 2.1 to match my Kenda Factory's.

new and old rubbery bands


I left the mudguards on mainly because i couldnt be faffed with removing them when i went out which turned out handy because the tracks i was on were pretty soggy still.
Needs a fair bit of work and TLC I was stuck on the middle ring most of the ride as it wouldnt downshift and on the upshift i could hear it catching quite badly when i got out the saddle. So new BB which is an annoying powerspline, new chain and the obligatory stripdown. Not sure what else im going to do as yet but ill decide more once im riding it more and with all the gears!

 

Do yourself a favour and just grab a new Deore crankset which will come with a brand new HT2 BB and new chain rings. It is a little more money, but well worth it in the long run due to decreased costs, stiffer more reliable interface, multiple BB manufacturer options and the inevitability of Truvativ deciding to stop making the worst bottom bracket interface that has ever been invented (I'm not joking about this either: a typical cotter-pin system will outlast and hold more securely than a modern PowerSpline). As well, since you're considering replacing the chain make sure you check the state of your cassette, because if it is too worn it would be silly to replace the chain as it'll disintegrate almost immediately, if it works at all. And really, at your part level a cassette is only worth $25 (£15 odd?), which isn't exactly going to break the bank.

 

Off the top of my head (as I've not looked in the book at work for the price of one for a while) an HG50 is the UK is £29.99 = $47.45 (US) but can be had for £17.99 here at chainreaction.

Also this is the chainset Malvolio is talking about (from the description it says it comes with a BB too).

 

Very interesting, One chap i know rides with a Sturmey Archer 5 spd hub and he is having murder with it, I think he has sent it back for a 3 spd now.

 

Any one else think that is spam???

 

Whatcha talking about? I did see it though, so I guess it's been moderator'd.

 

Sorry, my bad, being too lenient with my in-built spam-o-meter again.

 

Its all right, there is so little spam getting through these days seeing any is worthy of a comment!

 

The week before last I replaced two 3-speed Sturmey Archer hub internals because they exploded on cargo bikes under load

@Cookie Monster: wow is that expensive! Keystone on a HG51 is $30 at the high end, and HG41 racks up at $24. Granted my main supplier doesn't have any of either in stock currently, but still!

 

I'm there with you mate, I was on the phone to our Shimano supplier Madison yesterday for a RM30 freehub body, it's out of stock till 2nd week in April which leaves my customer without a bike.

 

Well, it's that time of year again folks: fund-raising time! After the debacle that was last years effort (thanks in no small part to my previous employer lying outright to my face) I thought it prudent to get an early start on it this year. Once more my employer has dedicated to donating some funds, but if you feel like donating to those in need (read: get a sweet tax write-off), please follow the link here. Funds go to the MS Society directly, and as ever I'll be taking plenty of pictures and doing a full write-up of the events.

 

Waiting for the front wheel and forks to arrive, maiden ride will be this weekend rain, wind and/or shine.

 

Thanks, yeah i was toying with the idea would make sense to change if im swapping out the BB, i can get an Deore M590 for around £60 and a matching deore cassette is about £20. Those and a new chain sound like a sensible investment

 

My XMM 140's came today!

Tomorrow morning i'll be in the garden finishing the build up then out for the day.

 

@ Malvolio - I've not heard much good about those Nuvinchi's TBH, i'm happy with my Alfine 11 on my XC bike. Most people don't like it on first impressions, they seem to think it's slow and draggy (maybe turning it in a workstand). You have to learn how to use it though, I can pull away much quicker than any of my mates, the drive is solid and direct and you can shift multiple gears with one full push of the shifter so hitting 20mph+ can be done with 2 shifts if you put the power down. It adds about a 1lb of weight compared to a derailleur setup but I think it's worth it for the lack of cleaning and maintainance and it's nice and quiet compared to my Pro2's.

@ Joey Propane - Looking pretty smart, just don't ever park it in snow!.

 

Unfortunately no riding today in the end as I can't for the life of me find my chain. I have 2 boxes of bike bits but it's in neither. :scratch:

(also, my mate has my track pump still and wont pick up the damn phone)

But other than flat tires and no chain it's ready to roll:


















Long, slack & low = FAST



Full Spec:

2011 Whyte T-120S Frame
2011 DT Swiss XMM 140 Forks
Stan's ZTR Arch Rims laced to Hope Pro II Evo Hubs (15mm front/142x12mm rear)
Hope Tech X2 Brakes 160/160mm Floating Rotors
Sunline V1 745mm Riser Bars
Sunline V1 65mm Stem
SDG I-Beam Setback Seatpost
SDG I-Fly Saddle
Shimano XT 1x9 Drivetrain w/ Renthal SR4 32t Chainring & MRP 1X Chainguide
Bontrager XR4 2.35" Team Issue Tires (XR2 2.1" on the way for the rear)

 

That's a beauty! How much does it weight? Looks pretty light to me.