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Other What's all this talk of a Mass Effect 3 boycott about!?

Discussion in 'Gaming' started by mattyh1995, 27 Feb 2012.

  1. niro

    niro New Member

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    I was never going to buy ME3 new and at full price, i never do with primarily SP games.

    The issue people have is that there is release day DLC, instead of releasing the whole game at a price, they have decided to cut bits out and release as DLC to get more money, which is ridiculous and in my mind unethical.
    If this becomes successful, how long will it be until EA and other publishers decide to do it with all their games in the future? And once thats done, how long until the next money making scheme?

    If people want to buy the collectors edition at full price, then that's fine, it's their choice and their cash, and if people want to boycott the product then thats fine too.

    I will not boycott the product, but neither will I buy it at full price or even half price, I will wait until it is much cheaper
     
  2. sotu1

    sotu1 Ex-Modder

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    Honestly it's teh internets thinking they have a right to everything they want and not pay for it. Like I say, back in the day this used to be called Expansion Packs. DLC like a game skin doesn't affect the game and is designed for the hardcore fans who genuinely want a Mass Effect Hoody or whatever it is.

    And seriously, if you think the other person will beat you because they have that rifle unlocked that you don't then you're probably really **** at games anyway. Skill > unlocks.
     
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  3. Edwards

    Edwards Active Member

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    I <3 blanket statements.

    DLC != Expansion Packs. The original concept behind them was that they would potentially be a similar thing, though DLC could be smaller increments to the original game, like extra sidemissions or characters. The issue is that they are releasing only part of a game. The Catwoman 'DLC' on Batman AC is a good example of this, as it is a decent part of the storyline you are completely missing out on if you don't have it.

    I don't agree that all DLC, or even all Day one DLC is bad, but the recent implementations of it have been lacking. If they were to put in an extreme mode where different AI was used against you, or some extra superfluous story for instance, I can understand paying for it; but don't take out what people consider to be core content from the game and expect people to pay extra for it when the original title is retailing for the same amount as full games.

    Also, you clearly haven't played some micro-transaction online games (yet another form of DLC) where itemisation really does give you an edge. Anyone who played APB when it went F2P will know that those Paid-only silenced SMGs were BS.
     
  4. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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    And this is the issue - you say they cut bits out. Bioware says it is a extra piece, made after the main game. They don't need time for creating the DVD's, printing booklets; they can tweak and fix stuff up until the launch of the game, ...

    Sure, it would be fine if it would be a patch instead of a DLC, but as stated above, this DLC is similar to the Zaeed DLC for ME2 - it is not an integral part of the game, the game is complete without it too.
     
  5. Bede

    Bede Well-Known Member

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    I bought Deus Ex's Missing Link DLC in the recent Steam sale, and that was thoroughly worth the £3 I paid for it.

    DLC has a clarity problem. In Bioware games alone the term encompasses extra skins, new weapons, new characters and new missions. This is not a good thing - the consumer perception is muddied, and largely suspicious. When you throw in the fact that CoD's high-profile DLC is £15 map packs the overall feel is of a money-making scam, regardless of the truth of the matter.

    Day-1 DLC is encouraged by the retail process, for PC and console. It is not caused by it however, publishers have realised that where people will not pay £40 for a single computer game they will pay that if they split the game into different elements and charge for each of them.

    The weapon/armour DLC pisses me off the most. RPGs are about choice and variety - reducing that for the base player reduces the quality of the game in a measurable way.

    Edit:

    The N7 defender armour (pre-order 'bonus) has "Improved shields and health... Increased ammo capacity. Additional ammunition compartments... Amplified weapon damage. Built-in power cells provide an additional punch to weapon fire."

    This marketing bollocks makes me the saddest. Not only are the game's elements split up, but they include a pay-to-win element too. This armour appears to have no downside to it, you don't have to work to get it, it simply makes the game easy if you pre-order.
     
  6. rollo

    rollo Well-Known Member

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    It is simply not possible to be bored at the min with games

    Ps vita was just released

    Ff13 x2 is out
    Star wars mmo is out
    Metal gear solid remakes are out
    Dungeon defenders
    Anno

    Loads to do without wondering how much more consolefied me3 can be compared to dragon age 2


    + a 7 year backlog from playing wow Way to much
     
  7. Tibby

    Tibby Back Once Again

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    Game Publishers wonder why people pirate games, and they somehow are oblivious to the fact that everything they do to break down the simple 'Make Game > Sell Game' model into other chunks detracts from sales.

    Users nowadays just want what's easiest, faced with the choice of buying a complete game on Steam for a fair price, or torrenting it and doing some fiddly patching for some games, most people choose Steam.

    Choosing between paying 5 times for a game and various DLC, and feeling cheated compared to the same amount of fiddling with a torrented game, a lot of people will Pirate.

    It's akin to the Movie price vs Pirated movies argument.
     
  8. 3lusive

    3lusive New Member

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    The problem is that Day one DLC, in my eyes and many others, is a money hoarding scheme, plain and simple. Publishers and developers now understand that they can artificially restrict game content and sell it for an extra fee, at the expense of us, the consumers.

    It's a horrible development, but you have to understand that these publishers are private companies that are designed to make a profit, and DLC is a great way they can find an extra buck. They know how fanatic gamers can be, and know how easily we will part with our money and be exploited.

    Whether or not a boycott is effective or even the correct way to vent your anger is hard to say. I certainly believe it has an effect if enough people threaten to do it. It certainly worked when BF3 was being released in making some of the permanently exclusive DLC time-exclusive, a notable backdown and win for the consumer.

    Also, the people who criticise the gamers who are standing up against this are just ridiculous IMO. Publishers are money hoarding yet again and you don't say anything. It blows my mind how some people on Bittech consider themselves serious gamers, yet say nothing when stuff like this occurs (and in fact act as gatekeepers for corporations who gladly rip them off time and time again).

    And for what it's worth, it isn't possible to just say 'don't buy the DLC', because the DLC would be in the game if it hadn't been artificially monetised (or at least that is the very likely conclusion unless you naively buy Bioware's BS excuse). By not buying the the DLC you are in effect missing out on parts of the game you could otherwise have enjoyed, for free.

    Good job I happen to think ME is overrated as a series also. Shame about this development though, hope it dies very soon.
     
  9. Beasteh

    Beasteh New Member

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    Personally, I have no problem with day-1 DLC, provided the game offers a reasonable amount of content for the money. Same as with games that don't have DLC. If people want to pay 10 bucks for stuff that could just as easily been left on the cutting room floor, more power to them. Like many in this thread, I won't be buying it - but not because it's objectionable. It's just pointless.


    For single player games, what does it matter if you can "pay-to-win" ? The only person you're cheating is yourself. Much like playing on Easy or in Story Mode, it's your choice to use the armour or not.
     
  10. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    That's the thing.. these AREN'T content left on the cutting room.

    Features/content reaching cutting room (talking in gaming and any software that you are using), is when adding the feature/content isn't critical per say (won't break the program feature if it's not there (ie: not a core component needed), or doesn't provide have enough "sale" feature/marketing power, and can wait)), AND if decided to implement, it would create sever delays as they are time consuming to implement/develop and the testing stage would create even more delays.

    Day 1 DLC, means that the content is already been done, and tested. In fact, they had SO MUCH free time, that they were able to test the DLC content, PLUS the DLC system system. So it's 100% on purpose.
     
  11. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    TBH I would do the same.

    If you have a game that's been successful and then produce sequels of course you would try and maximise your revenue stream by offering additional DLC.

    If people didn't buy it they wouldn't do it.

    It's choice at the end of the day, buy it or don't buy it, the main game remains the same.
     
  12. 3lusive

    3lusive New Member

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    Yeah but surely if you were in charge you would do it ethically and not artificially restrict content created during the games dev cycle? I.e you may offer some DLC, but this would be legitimately created after the game was released?

    I agree, though, that businesses are not compelled to honour any 'ethics' unless they feel it in their sales, or are persuaded to do so by popular demand, and with so many people buying Cod map packs, BF DLC, and all the other DLC that exists, they basically know they can get away with it and people will buy it.

    A boycott, however, is only one option of trying to influence their behaviour. You could email them, post youtube videos denouncing it, protest outside their offices, write long forum posts, all kinds of things. If it generates enough heat, they will back down. No question about it.
     
  13. sotu1

    sotu1 Ex-Modder

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    Ok, I grant my statement was a bit blase, but I still stand behind the sentiment.

    It's content, take it or leave it. Doesn't affect the core game. With ME3 you're still getting 50+ hours of game play. AT £40 RRP, that still works out at just over a pound per hour of entertainment.

    Also, I've played more than my share of F2P games. I got to a fair level in BF Heroes without any MTX to give me an edge. I've also played numerous iPhone games that are MTX funded and paid for that too. I've for MTX but ultimately I didn't feel like I'd lost out because of it. And that reptile costume I bought for MK for about £3? Really, was I gonna complain about £3 that could have easily been a built in unlockable? No. I spend more on iPhone apps that I play for 10 minutes then never look at again.

    I just get tired of cynical internets that's all. It's just cool **** from the creative industries. These guys gotta make money and all along the chain someone has to pay. They have to show progress and innovation or they lag and fall behind the way side, shareholders pull out and boom, you're THQ or Game.

    Bigger picture: DLC paves the way for the future of digital distribution, which whether you like it or not, is going to happen. Onlive is seeing to that. Your Durangos and PS4s will feature more and more Digital Distributed content whether whole games or MTX.
     
  14. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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    And again - you need some time for the physical media, packing, delivery etc stuff. And because this is being done in Asia, and most of the stuff from Asia comes in containers on ships, it really needs to be done months before the release.

    What happens after the "gold code" deadline is another question. Some companies bugfix and release day 1 patches through Steam/Origin/downloadable patch. Others have their game already tested, so they can work on the next project. In case of Bioware, logically the next project for the guys who were doing ME3 would be the DLCs.

    And now to those who says it couldn't be done in 3 months they say. Let's look at ME2 DLC i got from the Steam preorder :
    1) Normany crash site - no dialogues, one relatively small map, 2 messages in your inbox. That's it.
    2) Zaeed - go for him to Omega, one dialogue, one loyalty mission, few lines on the ship. That's it.

    If you seriously say that neither of these could be done in 2-3 months time, you are living in some different universe than me. They make a whole new game in 2 years (ME2->ME3), but 3 months for one DLC is "too short time" according to the boycotters...
     
  15. Mongoose132

    Mongoose132 Duckmad

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    Probably what I'll do, was going to buy it regardless, but someone added up the cost of all the items for all the DLC, came up to like £600 or something insane :blush:
     
  16. DeckerdBR

    DeckerdBR Well-Known Member

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    I wish people would stop comparing this ME3 day prothean DLC character to the Zaeed DLC from ME2.

    For a start, Zaeed was free as part of the cerberus code, which came with every new purchase of ME2. Apart from the fact you could not have full on conversation with Zaeed like you could with *most* other main characters I thought he was a good addition and enjoyed the loyalty mission immensely.

    This day one ME3 prothean DLC is paid and pretty expensive in my opinion. If it was free like Zaeed was I think there would be less of an issue but I can see why people don't like the day one paid DLC. Although even they delayed it a week it would still feel like a rip off.

    EA/Bioware clearly plan DLC in advance and the fixed pricing seems to be working from them, as outside of the occasional sale, you don't tend to see permanent DLC price reductions over time, like you might with a full retail game.

    My issue with DLC is not that it exists or that it is becoming more common, it that not all DLC is good quality, yet it often costs a lot or the same as other better DLC.

    I give the example of the ME2 paid DLC (and I am aware this is purely my opinion on what I consider “good”).

    Lair of the shadow broker, absolutely brilliant, decent length, good story, added something permanent to the game. I still could not shake the feeling however that it had been cut from the game, as when you first meet Liara on illium, the quests to hack the terminals are all building up to helping Liara get too the shadow broker and then it just stops. I have no idea of they cut it from the game due to time constraints or intended DLC but it did come out a lot later then the main game, so I will give them the benefit of the doubt and as I said, most enjoyable.

    Overlord - good story in the end, with a heart wrenching decision to be made but terrible game play, it cos tless than the Shadow Broker DLC but was half the quality.

    Kisumi Stolen Memory - added another selectable squad member and a loyalty mission. Like Zaeed she didn't have the full interactive dialog of the main characters. Both her and Zaeed occupied space on the ship, which if you didn't have the DLC were inaccessible. Kisumi was the same price as overlord and arrival but IMO over priced for what it added. It would have been nice if she had been free, like Zaeed as thanks to the fans.

    Arrival - pretty good, action packed, apparenyl ends right where ME3 takes off. Priced the same as Kisumi but better quality.

    I think as extended long term DLC the main missions; Shadow Broker, Arrival and Overlord are ok, if not a bit overpriced by the MS/Biowarepoint structure. The Extra crap like weapons, alternate appearance packs are a bit greedy of them. The characters should really, IMO have been there for free.

    Sadly DLC will become more common and with the likes of Ubisoft admitting they did cut some completed Assassin Creed XX content to sell as DLC, with people happy to accept and buy it still, I doubt these companies even care anyway.

    It's interesting that the Wikipedia article for Dragon Age says that Bioware made over 1 million dollars in DLC for just DA Origins. With that kind of money making, I am not surprised they are rinsing it with DLC! I don't approve personally, but it lucky for them they don't need my approval to do it ha ha! :)

    Edit: linky for DLC info:
    http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Downloadable_Content
     
    Last edited: 28 Feb 2012
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  17. JPClyde

    JPClyde New Member

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    I agree most developers are ironing out bugs for day 1 patches not creating day 1 DLC's. I would rather have a game with reduced bugs and shows they are fixing the problems, than having to pay for extra content and may make the game buggy as hell.

    These short DLC's were only one map each and there wasn't anything new added to the maps, so yes they could have done them in 2-3 months but I doubt it, not without it being bug ridden. Also they could have started the DLC's for ME2 well before the game became gold, or even was suppose to be in the game, they had the decency to give them to you if you had a pass.

    The 2 year gap between ME2 and ME3 is a long time when you have already the core items, like the engine, characters, weapons, etc. from what I have seen of ME3 there doesn't seem to be alot of difference in appearance between the 2nd and 3rd, the major change will be the story and that's where alot of the work would have been. Also I would expect because they knew that this game was a trilogy and had the story already prepared, they already had another team starting on the 3rd before the 2rd was released.

    The DLC's and pre-order bonuses for weapons and armour have already been made, they make them during developement and the best are picked out so that they can reduce the coding in the finished game, but they still charge you for them instead of saying, hey because you have bought our game here are some free items thank you.

    And for the day 1 DLC not being part of the main story as BioWare say, only the gullible believe them 100% I'm 50/50, it is very easy in RPGs to remove content by not having a quest giver, have a door locked or have a path blocked, then DLC unlocks this, I know plenty of games that are like this, specially when the download is a small file.
     
    Last edited: 29 Feb 2012
  18. Volund

    Volund Am I supposed to care?

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    DLC in general is bull. I just went back to re-play Fallout 3, getting all the DLC was $5 more than buying the GOTY edition.... rebuying the game in the process

    At least with Mass Effect 3 you can buy the Digital Deluxe edition on Amazon, get the DLC, pre-load on the 2nd, the extra "fluff" stuff they put in (comic, soundtrack, badges, skins, etc.), plus a $10 Amazon credit.... if you are a completionist, it makes sense to get the Deluxe edition, essentially the same price as the base game + the DLC on day one.
     
  19. Bede

    Bede Well-Known Member

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    Appears to be US only, doesn't show up on the UK store. I'm quite tempted by this as it is apparently only an Origin code, would be nice to know if ME3 is region locked though.
     
  20. Tomhyde1986

    Tomhyde1986 New Member

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    i've never actually bought DLC for any game I own. I've taken the free stuff but I always ay if I really enjoyed a game I might consider buying DLC. I've yet to find a game I've enjoyed enough to spend extra money on it and take it from me I've loved many games to death.

    I tend to play my games as they rolled out of the factory. Sure I use patches that fix bugs etc but I'm not forking out 3 quid for a new costume or some armor that gives me a stat bonus for pre-ordering the collectors edition. I'll pre-order the collectors edition of a game for the other stuff like the sound track, art book, making of DVD etc.

    The issue I see with day 1 DLC is this:

    Even if (hypothetically) the content was created post main game production (manufacturing), to the consumer, it still feels like its content that was left out of the main game and should be included by default. It feels as if you are being forced to part with more money for content you should get for free. It feels like your being duped even if it isn't actually the case.

    Don't get me wrong I agree with many that day 1 DLC is nothing short of money grabbing. I'm all for DLC later on after a game has launched to tempt players back and keep the game fresh but not on Day 1.

    I will probably get ME3 at some point because I loved ME2. I just won't be getting any DLC for it unless it's free.
     

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