1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Displays Which Monitor?

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by matt_lumley, 8 Jul 2012.

  1. azrael-

    azrael- I'm special...

    Joined:
    18 May 2008
    Posts:
    3,852
    Likes Received:
    124
    About the differences between the U2410 and the U2412M: the U2410 is the higher-end of the two having a better panel (8 bit + 2 bit Advanced Frame Rate Control) while the U2412M uses a 6 bit + 2 bit A-FRC panel. The difference? The U2410 can do 16.7 million distinct colours and up to 1 billion dithered, while the U2412M can do 262.144 and up to 16.2 million dithered. Both use IPS panels, though and in use the difference is hardly noticable unless you do a lot of Photoshop work and need Adobe RGB and similar colour spaces.

    Even though the U2410 is sexier I'd say the U2412M is the better deal.
     
    matt_lumley likes this.
  2. Tigernos

    Tigernos Resident Roman Soldier

    Joined:
    12 Dec 2011
    Posts:
    315
    Likes Received:
    16
    If you are carting this off to uni do you really want that expensive of a monitor? I'm not saying they are not worth having, I've just bought a U2412 (arrives Tuesday) but how much do you really need the quality and such? Sure if it's going to be carted back and forth, in shared accommodation? Whats the risk on it getting damaged or even stolen? Cheap ass monitor might serve you better.

    (reasoning- friend of mine doing computer science at Manchester had a £300 monitor, smashed in a drunken night by house mates and second one was nicked when a housemate left the door unlocked.)
     
  3. HybridCore

    HybridCore Member

    Joined:
    20 May 2011
    Posts:
    93
    Likes Received:
    3
    In practice you won't notice a difference. The U2412M is basically the value version of the U2410, except with more curves which I don't like as much as the angular, professional look of the U2410 but, you'll just have to deal with it. It's not the ugliest thing in the world. You can also always debezel but you might void the warranty doing so taking the panel and PCB out of the monitor casing. I would do that after I'm sure the monitor doesn't have any problems after a few days or so.

    Edit: just confirmed panel bits. Yup, U2412M is 6 bit + dithering (so it looks like 8 bit) and U2410 is true 8 bit + dithering (looks like 10 bit). Again, you won't really notice a difference.
     
  4. matt_lumley

    matt_lumley You're only supposed to...

    Joined:
    28 Apr 2010
    Posts:
    1,000
    Likes Received:
    31
    I see your point, just dont want to spend (all be it less) on a lesser monitor to then buy another when I dont feel this one is cutting it. Also theft should be covered on the shared accommodation insurance should it not?

    Looking at the 23" now so slightly less expensive, with plans to buy another later on haha.
     
  5. Bloody_Pete

    Bloody_Pete Technophile

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    7,556
    Likes Received:
    593
    Not if someone leaves the door open...
     
  6. Tigernos

    Tigernos Resident Roman Soldier

    Joined:
    12 Dec 2011
    Posts:
    315
    Likes Received:
    16
    Insurance wise I have no idea. I can see what you mean though I'm a stickler for buying the best of what I can afford. Which is why the upgrade bug has bitten and I'm already lookin at GTX670's and bigger cases haha.

    Best of luck whatever you choose. Perhaps goodbytes will show up and put everything right soon!
     
  7. HybridCore

    HybridCore Member

    Joined:
    20 May 2011
    Posts:
    93
    Likes Received:
    3
    Plenty of people have bought these monitors. One thing you should pay attention to is the power brick though. It's rated for 240v but (don't let this scare you) plenty of people have been able to use a 120v brick and still have the monitor run stably at 60Hz. If you're that concerned, you can get a step up transformer (I think that's what they're called).

    One thing you should know. A certain batch of Yamakasi Catleaps (one of the Korean monitors) is known to overclock up to 100Hz. It's the batch with...I believe the 2B PCB which allows it to overclock. I think that's pretty awesome, considering that you can get good refresh rates now with an IPS. Right now though, people only seem to be able to find the 2C PCBs which don't overclock. It's rare to find the 2B PCBs now.
     
  8. terrorbyt

    terrorbyt MultiModder

    Joined:
    19 Apr 2012
    Posts:
    397
    Likes Received:
    9
    I think you'll find I sparked this :p

    I do genuinely think it's worth it though, especially as 2 decent sized LED monitors fit well under your budget :)
     
  9. HybridCore

    HybridCore Member

    Joined:
    20 May 2011
    Posts:
    93
    Likes Received:
    3
    IMO for the best experience I would go ahead and void the warranty by debezeling it (removing the panel and its PCB and connectors out of its case) so you have the thinnest border you can. It's amazing. Check out CallsignVega's multi monitor setups. Here's one.

    [​IMG]

    The end two are just add-ons because he had them. Here are 3 debezeled...Samsungs I believe.

    [​IMG]

    Gaming on this is a wonder. At the bottom of the post, check out the demos on his YouTube.
     
  10. matt_lumley

    matt_lumley You're only supposed to...

    Joined:
    28 Apr 2010
    Posts:
    1,000
    Likes Received:
    31
    Those setups look amazing! Love the idea and is definitely a possibility later down the line.

    I enjoy getting the best I can afford as that is why I work so hard, feels good when you work for something as you all will know :) Think Im swaying to either the U2412M or the smaller U2312HM. Both look excellent and also identical baring resolution. Just figuring out if I need the extra pixels and also whether I can afford the extra £50. Probably wait for this months pay day and buy them then.
     
  11. azrael-

    azrael- I'm special...

    Joined:
    18 May 2008
    Posts:
    3,852
    Likes Received:
    124
    Don't know how much the price difference is for you, but here it's so little that I personally would prefer the slight extra cost and get a 16:10 panel (U2412M) than a 16:9 panel (U2312HM). 16:9 panels are the Devil's work! :D
     
  12. HybridCore

    HybridCore Member

    Joined:
    20 May 2011
    Posts:
    93
    Likes Received:
    3
    They aren't identical in resolution (which also regards aspect ratio). The U2412M is a 16:10 monitor with the resolution of 1920x1200. The U2312HM is 16:9 with 1920x1080. Which one? That depends on your preferences.

    So I checked Dell's UK website for prices in Euros. I think you should go with one of the Korean monitors. Here are the prices.

    U2412M = 259 Euros

    U2410 = 389 Euros

    U2312HM = 199 Euros

    Yamakasi Catleap (price varies but I found one that's relatively inexpensive) = ~225.68 euros

    Here's the link to the catleap.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAKASI-...r_Monitors&hash=item1e6f9b9f39#ht_23319wt_905

    Here's the Crossover 27Q. There are 2 models, LED and LED-P. The difference is that the -P model can pivot (basically, you can turn the monitor so it stands vertically like in Vega's setups).

    27Q LED

    1. 243.74 Euros link

    2. 240 Euros link

    3. 179.26 Euros link

    LED-P

    1. 257.92 Euros link

    2. 254.71 Euros link

    There are a bunch. I'll just leave the search link for "Crossover 27Q" on eBay Europe here.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=crossover+27q&_sacat=0&_odkw=crossover+led-p&_osacat=0

    You can check OCN for more monitors. I can list a few you should be able to afford.

    -Achieva Shimian
    -Yamakasi Catleap
    -Crossover 27Q LED/LED-P
    -PCBank 3view PB2700
    -Potalion 2710QW (relatively new to the well known ones but from what I've seen, just as good)

    That's all I can think of. Here are a few threads on OCN about these monitors.

    PCBank 3VIEW PB2700 > http://www.overclock.net/t/1228729/better-27-ips-from-korea-pcbank-3view-pb2700

    Potalion 2710QW Club > http://www.overclock.net/t/1270861/potalion-2710qw-monitor-club

    Achieva Shimian QH270 + Yamakasi Catleap Q270 Review > http://www.overclock.net/t/1215866/...g-90hz-achieva-shimian-qh270-and-catleap-q270

    Yamakasi Catleap Monitor Club > http://www.overclock.net/t/1225919/yamakasi-catleap-monitor-club

    Crossover 27Q LED/LED-P, 27M LED, and 2720MDP GOLD LED Club > http://www.overclock.net/t/1232496/crossover-27q-led-led-p-27m-led-2720mdp-gold-led-monitor-club
     
  13. HybridCore

    HybridCore Member

    Joined:
    20 May 2011
    Posts:
    93
    Likes Received:
    3
    This. I'd prefer 16:10. 16:9 is unnaturally stretched and IMO rather uncomfortable to look at. Plus, it's not truly 1080p unless you use full screen as the taskbar takes up some space. 16:10 feels more natural to me.

    If you're concerned about FOV (field of vision) in gaming. Don't worry. 16:10 only chops off a small bit in games for the size of your FOV but it's perfectly fine.

    Edit: in USD (and probably Euro), the Potalion 2710QW has the lowest price for perfect pixel. What's perfect pixel? The monitor is checked to see if it has or does not have any dead or stuck pixels. Ones without any pixel imperfections are labelled and sold as "pixel perfect" on EBay. Great if you're concerned. I also read in the thread for this monitor on OCN that it comes with a 4 year warranty from Korea.

    Edit: Usually with larger monitors like 27" ones, 16:9 is fine to look at.
     
    Last edited: 8 Jul 2012
  14. azrael-

    azrael- I'm special...

    Joined:
    18 May 2008
    Posts:
    3,852
    Likes Received:
    124
    Hmm... While these Korean import monitors do look interesting I'm not really too sure if I would dare take the (cat :p)leap. Remember you need to pay import taxes on top of the price and returning the monitor if it's defective might prove to be a tad more difficult than I'd like. I'm also a bit wary as to why these monitors can be sold this cheap.

    I agree with HybridCore that when it comes to large monitors an exception can be made to the 16:10 preference. ;)

    At this point GoodBytes usually recommends calling up Dell's Small Business department to get a lower quote and while this might work in Canada and the US at least here in Denmark you'll be asked to provide your VAT/tax number.
     
  15. HybridCore

    HybridCore Member

    Joined:
    20 May 2011
    Posts:
    93
    Likes Received:
    3
    Plenty of people had made the leap. I believe some sellers offer a warranty.

    I explained in one of my tl;dr (too long;didn't read) paragraphs. I'll just explain it again:

    Monitor panels have a grading system, like chip binning for RAM and such. The perfect panels are labelled A+ and have (usually) no issues whatsoever. The panels used in these monitors are so called the "rejects". Don't let that scare you. They only use A and A- panels which only have minor problems such as a few dead or stuck pixels or a little bit of backlight bleed. For the price, it's an amazing value for something so inexpensive, and you can always buy a "perfect pixel" version. These are just monitors that have been tested for dead or stuck pixels. The ones without any are labelled as this by sellers on eBay.

    The resolution is already astounding. Your FOV can become enormous in games, and you won't notice the difference between 16:9 and 16:10. All you think is "big" unless you've gotten used to the size and resolution.
     
  16. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

    Joined:
    20 Jan 2007
    Posts:
    12,300
    Likes Received:
    710
    Hello everyone,
    azrael- pretty much said it all.

    But let me explain the difference between the U2410 and the U2412M.

    The Dell U2410 uses an H-IPS panel, while the U2412M (lower end monitor), uses an eIPS panel. What does this means?
    eIPS means economy-IPS, in other words manufacture where able to produce an IPS panel far cheaper than other IPS panel types. While the other panel types are about the same, today. e-IPS is the one with a larger gap. So what's the difference? Well an eIPS panel will show a hint of a yellow tint at some extreme angles. (you won't notice, beside you don't use your monitor at 178-180 degree view angle, especially not doing color critical work at such angle to even possibly notice). But more importantly it is a 6-bit per channel (red , green and blue) panel, like TN (the average monitor that "everyone else" uses) and MVA panels. It uses something called FRC (Frame Rate Control), like the other 6-bit per channel panels, to emulate 8-bit colors, so that you see all the colors. The way it works, is when a color is displayed that the monitor can't display, it takes 2 colors that it can produce, and switches between them really fast to produce it. This is fine for most people, but for people who enjoys colors or picky or does color critical work, they tend to not like this effect, as the colors doesn't appear to be the exactly right. But then again... you see the price difference. 8-bit panels cost more to produce.

    The U2410 has a built-in 12-bit color processor and 10-bit Look up Table, while the U2412M doesn't. It just have the basics (but good) circuitry to display colors. So, what this color processor and look up table means? Well it used in conjunction to ensure that colors that you see are properly displayed on your screen, based on the monitor settings. Also, you have a lot more color adjustment options over the traditional Red , Green and Blue settings. You have Gain, Offset, Saturation and Hue control for each color. Also, it can display, If you have the setup, 10-bit colors using Frame Rate Control system, as explained above... but instead of using 6-bit to show 8-bit colors, it uses it's 8-bit color it can produce to display 10-bit colors. (You need a compatible OS, graphic card, drivers, software, and well content, and use DisplayPort without any adapters, to enjoy this feature... so don't really jump on your chair of excitement). The up side NOT having tall this fancy color processor and stuff, is low input lag. For hardcore FPS players this may cause a problem. However, if you are one , then you should be looking at perhaps TN panels instead as they can be faster, and even lower response time.

    Moreover, the U2410 is a very bright screen. This is due that it uses high-grade CCFL lamps on the back (hence why it's also thicker), while the U2412 uses a cheaper light technology, white LED's, which are the bottom. Here are the difference between the 2:

    High-grade CCFL's
    -> Cost more than any other light technology, but bellow RGB-LED (only found in select few professional monitors, it uses perfect red, green and blue LED's mixes together, and very close together to display an adjustable white light)
    -> Consumes more power and evidently produces more heat
    -> Needs to be on the back of the panel, so you don't have as good of a contrast ratio as LED backlight
    -> Makes the monitor thicker
    -> Has, while not really visible nor noticeable and quick for the high-grade CFL's, it has a warm up time.
    -> But, it provides a far brighter image. So bright, that I, personally, have my monitor set to 0% brightness on the monitor settings.
    -> Provides true whites, making black-and -white images look stunning, and provide zero-blue tint on the other colors.
    -> Outputs wide color gamut (for our levels, this is a preference things). White-LED's output standard color gamut. What's the difference at the end of the day? The wide gamut provide a hint more vivid colors. For us, it's a preference things. Nothing major that can be called over saturation, nor will make adjusting your pictures taking by your camera, a problem. The difference is minor. For a professional who needs pin point color accuracy, that will be a big up or down side, depending on their work.

    White-LED's
    -> Inexpensive, making the monitor cost less
    -> Lighter, making shipping cheaper, so the product cheaper
    -> Consumes much less space, and only needs a light of row at the bottom, so the monitor
    costs less to ship, so the product is cheaper.
    -> Consumes less power, great for laptops, and also creates far less heat
    -> But, it produces a blue tint on all colors, mostly really visible on whites and gray colors.
    -> Depending on the quality of the LED's used it can provide anything from a light blue light, to a cold color white. The U2412 and the Apple displays uses high quality white LED's.
    -> No warm up time
    -> Some few people reported a flickering effect visible.
    -> Outputs standard gamut colors (for our levels, this is a preference things)
    -> Better contrast ratio, as the light aren't directly behind the screen, they are at the bottom.
    -> Light spreading can be an issue, where the bottom might be brighter than the top. Not an issue for the U2412M if you wonder. Good light spreading technology is used.

    What else? Well the inputs as mentioned, and additional features like a media card reader, and picture-in-picture with side-by-side picture-in-picture mode support. The stand is also a better in term of quality. Both panels are made by LG.

    A note: TFTCentral U2410 review is very old. It was also at a time where LG had some manufacturing problem with their IPS panels. As a user of the U2410, I can say that the black levels and level of backlight bleeding is less than presented on the article, in consequence the contrast ratio should be a bit a better. The U2412M will offer you, as explained above, better contrast ratio. But both are really good for general purpose, movie watching and gaming purposes. Nothing too distracting. Of course, better contrast ratio is always welcomed. So you have to pick based on importance. For me, it's no issue. I don't recall a time where I had trouble seeing a dark scene somewhere.

    Finally the U2410 has 2 pre-calibrated color profiles: sRGB and Adobe RGB (monitor is on default set to Standard. You will want to go on the monitor menu and pick sRGB or Adobe RGB color profile for the best colors). This should bee seen as a plus or bonus and not a decision factor. Why? Well for one, it's not the best calibration in the world, second, a professional needs to calibrated their monitor twice a month or offset the monitor color shifting that occurs from the wear of the backlight and panel. So all it gives you, for a person that seeks nice colors, is an easy out of the box experience. Get it out of the box, connect it, pick either color profile based on taste, and load the correct OS color profile, and you are set.


    TLDR:
    -> U2410 will provide you with better colors than the U2412M, However, while still good, you won't have as good contrast ratio nor as low input lag, due to features implements to show the better colors. What makes the U2410 more expensive, is the higher-end panel, backlight technology, additional features of the monitor, and inputs.

    My view on value:
    To me, both monitors provides excellent value for your money. Either you can't go wrong. It depends on you, what do you want.

    If money is an issue, and you really want an IPS panel, 16:10, all by having nice color, great build quality and great RMA/warranty service than the U2412 will get you a great value for your money. Also, if contrast ration is critical, as you mostly play very dark games and/or watch a lot of dark scenes in movies, than this monitor is a great choice.

    If you prefer in getting the great colors on either you need it, or just for love of them, and basically don't need to touch the colors settings to get them proper out of the box (for a non professional usage). That is ignoring the fact that you will need load on the monitor, Adobe RGB or sRGB color profiles, and based on that choice load the correct color profile in Windows), and/or want to plug everything on it (game console, laptops, tablet, other PC, VCR, Blu-ray player) you can. The U2410 is an excellent choice, despite the higher price tag.
     
    Last edited: 9 Jul 2012
  17. HybridCore

    HybridCore Member

    Joined:
    20 May 2011
    Posts:
    93
    Likes Received:
    3
    Korean monitors disregarded. :(

    Just trying to spread the word. :)

    Anyways, he knows his stuff, so you have another great person to listen to.
     
  18. HybridCore

    HybridCore Member

    Joined:
    20 May 2011
    Posts:
    93
    Likes Received:
    3
    About the import taxes. These monitors are actually around $200-$250 before you add shipping to the seller, which is why they're $300-$400 (shipping is crazy these days).
     
  19. matt_lumley

    matt_lumley You're only supposed to...

    Joined:
    28 Apr 2010
    Posts:
    1,000
    Likes Received:
    31
    Cheers Goodbytes, I knew you would come through!

    I understand all of your points and am really finding it hard to weigh up what I want etc.

    On one hand I have a great monitor, very cheap (2412M), excellent warranty, great for what I need.

    On the other I have a slightly more expensive (2410), same warrant, same for what I need but with loads of inputs I could connect my PC, laptop and what ever else I wanted to.

    Decisions, decisions...
     
  20. HybridCore

    HybridCore Member

    Joined:
    20 May 2011
    Posts:
    93
    Likes Received:
    3
    I would go with the U2412M. In general, you won't notice a difference unless you do plenty of work with photo editing and such that require for more colors.

    Well, I've left my 2 cents. I think I'll be leaving then since you are no longer considering the Korean monitors. Good luck with the monitor you choose. :)
     
Tags:

Share This Page