Windows Windows 8 Marmite thread... Because you either love it or hate it

I'm not ignoring any improvements, and as I said give me the option to ditch all the Metro cr*p and I'd consider it an upgrade, although some of the so called improvements have been available in Linux for years.

 

Well it's not going away.
I used to not like the Metro app, but now I do like it. I have to try it on my desktop though. But on my laptop, I like it a lot.
I like a lot the fact that I can get my news (local, national, and tech news), number of e-mail, what's playing, weather and more.. all at the start screen.

 

I for one stopped using my pc to check e-mails because it was far easier just to wait for the push notifications on my phone to alert me to any new mail. However it's now just as easy to check on Win8, with notifications coming through without first having to open a dedicated program live Windows Live Mail or Outlook. Business users will likely still need to use Outlook for the advanced features it offers, but 99% of the population will be happy with the Mail App and find it extremely useful.

The same goes for the Calendar App, and all the other news and weather Apps that GoodBytes has mentioned, not to mention future 3rd party apps, the possibilities are quite large.

Taking the stance of Metro=touch interface is being a little short sighted. It has it's uses outside of tablets, and if you don't want to use any of the dedicated Metro Apps, you can easily uninstall them all. Imo Start Screen >>>>>> Start Menu, even on a desktop running 2x24" monitors, and it will only get better.

Edit. Also, got everything re-installed yesterday. Everything working fine now, although still no push notification on the Weather App, which is odd.

 

Greetings!

You should try it on the desktop. Especially with an usual work related load. Once you begin opening PDFs, spreadsheets, webpages, browsers, docs, emails, dedicated work programs, etc, you will find out how limitative the Metro apps are, they use way too much screen space. They just get in the way and are too basic function wise.

The advantage to the traditional model of receiving notifications near the clock is... ?
Or you just stay there looking to the Start Screen?

Metro is okish to a play/socialize/entertain gadget, for work loads it gets in the way. Once you realise that and start using desktops programs to replace the Metro apps, you just begin wondering where is the Metro kill switch.

PS:

I just check the notifications near the clock for the work email account and the webmail tab colour for a new personal email (if it is blue, new email).

 

bearing in mind the current metro apps are 'Pre-Views' they are not the fully functioning apps as yet. you may find that the apps take on a whole new persona when fully completed.

 

Greetings!

Thats what I thought some months ago. Then I read Microsoft guidelines for Metro apps.
"Touch First" or "No Way To Close" are some of those.

 

I think you've slightly confused what we mean by push notifications. Push notifications don't need the program to be running in order to get notifications. There's no need to start up dedicated e-mail, news, calendar, facebook, twitter, likedin, and weather etc. programs or web-pages before being able to see any updates. For example, it is hugely more convenient to be able to see if there are any new e-mails on the start screen (or lock screen) before opening an e-mail client. Also, not having e-mail clients etc. open all the time reduces the amount of system resources used. It really is win, win, and for these basic functions the Metro app is easily capable. I prefer the simple no-clutter design of the people hub to check facebook over opening the facebook website for example, whilst the Mail app is easily good enough to manage my three commonly used e-mail accounts (personal, junk, uni).

I don't understand why people are up in arms over the start screen. The start menu was nothing special, and lacked a lot of functionality in comparison. You may have to move your mouse a little further to open Word, but it's only the difference of a medium sized wrist flick as opposed to a small wrist flick = exactly the same in the real world.

Plenty of the Metro apps leave a lot to be desired, but the store will be flooded with new apps when Windows 8 hits retail, and I'm sure MS will continue to work on their apps to bring them up to par where needed.

Overall, Metro has its use on the desktop.

 

Greetings!

Mail client and browser are always open on my PCs. No need for push notifications, handy for portable gadgets, though.

It adds nothing over the previous Start Menu, it runs only fullscreen, it is unskippable on boot, it requires user time to keep it clean of useless junk, it is made for small touch-enabled screens not 20+" screens, ...
It has only two real uses, to launch Desktop and to perform searches. Once we find a way to launch directly to Desktop, its only real use is to perform fullscreen searches. Still hoping Microsoft makes the default search show all results, not the current "by type" search.

Has some use. But Metro apps are way more simpler and limited than desktop programs and Start Screen is not needed.

 

That's you. I guess Microsoft needs to make Windows 8 Impar from Bit-tech.net forum edition Pro.
I don't keep software running.

Plus, in your case, you need to visit each web browser tab to view the news. Here, you see all in front on you, plus e-mail notification (I assume an Outlook live tile will exists, which goes to desktop when you click on it). Let's go with the basics, BBC, Tech site #1, Tech site #2, Bit-tech, Tech site #3, Bit-tech.net forum. depending on your screen resolution, it fits in one column. You can probably add more (I was just looking at my small laptop). Of course right now, they are no bit-tech app nor BBC, but there is one for Tom's Hardware. Plus you have weather, calendar, and who knows.. maybe even Steam one day. And I am not even thinking about it. All that piles up and help clears desktop clutter.

And if you think not, I can apply your logic from XP to Windows 7.
-> Search in XP is good enough, I can wait the extra second for having my displays show
-> Start menu search is useless. I have a task bar search bar that I installed that does the same thing.
-> Profile folders are useless, I can create my own.
-> New task bar is useless in Win7. XP one works just fine.
and so on and so fourth... So then why you updated Win7? Why after using Windows 7 for all these years, now using XP feel cumbersome and a bit annoying to use. Well I can tell you why. Because it's better, you got used to it, it boosted your productivity in using the system, which you feel, that using XP, is like having sticks in your wheels. But of course you needed to get used to Windows 7 first.. that took time.

 

If you were doing all of these things I don't understand why metro apps would even come into the equation. You would be doing all this on the desktop, with your normal desktop programs adobe reaer, excel, browser, word etc.

 

But you are talking from a personal point of view, then automatically thinking that everyone else feels the same way as you. I don't have an e-mail client open all the time, and with Metro there's no need to have one. I don't want to have numerous tabs open all the time, just to check the news or facebook. I don't use twitter or likedin, but if I did having facebook, twitter and likedin all in one place makes a lot of sense (and plenty of people do use all three, or at least 2/3).

I don't think the start screen takes more time to organise than the start menu. The start menu was forever getting filled by useless things when programs were installed, endless read-me documents, uninstall links (which aren't needed) etc. Re-arranging and adding/removing links on the start screen is no more difficult than on the start menu, in some cases it's easier because deleting items from the start menu in Vista and 7 brought up a UAC prompt every time. I think it is also up to program makers to refrain from having their program dump a load of useless shortcuts when installing. An example is 3ds Max Design 2013. This program dumped a separate shortcut for every possible language on the start screen, and there was no option not to when installing (I checked the second time). There really was no need, instead just selecting the language when installing should have been enough to only install the English version and just have a single link. This is not MS's fault, but Autodesk for being lazy. There is no need for every program to add an uninstall shortcut in the start menu/screen, because each program is added to the program and features list, and it's easier to uninstall from there.

There is no denying that the start screen adds something over the start menu. Whether or not you like these new features is your opinion really. I, and many other people find the new features useful, and I don't see the problem with it being full screen, it actually makes sense if you use it as its designed.

Metro apps are a different thing entirely. I can see their use for simple tasks, and as I said they're easily powerful enough for the majority of tasks 'most' people use their computers for. The metro interface, the way it's designed at the moment, doesn't lead itself well to complex programs like Photoshop or AutoCAD, but it's not designed to be. For checking e-mail, browsing the web, updating facebook, looking at pictures, checking news, etc. (the kinda think that 90% of users use their computers for), it's perfectly usable.

Metro does have its place on 20"+ screens. I'm not convinced Windows 8 is all it could or should be, and we might have to wait until l Win 9 to have a streamlined OS, but for me 8 is an improvement on 7, albeit a little clumsy in it's transition between metro and the desktop. I can live with that though.

 

I disagree with this. First of all I have never organised a start menu, however the start screen needs a lot of rearranging straight off the bat, this has been mentioned earlier in the thread I think. The start menu doesn't fill up with all of the useless things you have mentioned. They are all grouped within a single entry folder. So as you add programs the start menu grows by one folder, not by the number of items within that folder. All supplementary files and programs are grouped together in one folder. While these supplementary files aren't used as much as the associated program they are there for a reason and do prove useful. Uninstall links are also useful as it's usually quicker to bring up the start menu find the program you want to uninstall and then click the link as opposed to navigating through control panel and waiting on the list of installed programs to populate (which as I found out recently can be quite slow).

So now when a program is installed with the start screen either supplementary programs and files are sprawled all over the start screen which sort of ruins the look and feel of it or you get a single program launch link with the supplementary stuff hidden away somewhere in the c:\. Neither is an appealing option. This aspect of the start screen is something which could have been more elegantly dealt with. One idea would be to have a single launch icon when right or maybe middle clicked would bring up a small window listing all the supplementary stuff including the uninstall link.

 

Probably just me that used to re-organise my start menu, deleting all unused links and organising programs into group folder (Media, Work, Maintenance etc. etc.). So for me, organising the start screen is just as easy. I do agree that the start screen isn't laid out very well out of the box.

I still don't see the need for independent uninstall links for every program. Waiting a few seconds for the 'programs and features' list to populate isn't a big deal, it's not as if people are uninstalling things multiple times a day. My list is pretty much instantaneous, but then I keep my computer very organised with no unnecessary programs. It's also easy to navigate to the 'programs and features' window in Windows 8, just right click a program on the start screen and click 'uninstall' at the bottom, and you're there.

I still feel it's up to individual companies to organise the shortcuts they place in the start folders. As you say, up until now they're all kept under a seperate folder on the start menu (although Adobe products were never contained under a separate folder as default), so developers seemed to chuck all kinds of s**t in there, and it didn't really matter (annoyed me though). They will have to change how they do things with Windows 8, but this isn't exactly Microsoft's fault. I'm not sure it would be feasible to do it any other way, because there'd be no way for Windows to differentiate between a shortcut that links to the actual program, or a shortcut linking to program settings/ununstall etc.

 

Not really sure where to start with all this... but here goes:

Windows 8, and Windows 7.. and all previous versions of Windows have been aimed at the mass market, whereas random Linux distro is aimed at the hard core geek, Windows is not. Push notifications make it a LOT easier for the 99% to get their email/facebook updates without even having to do anything. Also, it means there's no dedicated application running which saves memory for superfetch to be awesome.. but hey, everyone bitched at MS for Vista nd 7 for using too much memory.. they change something to use LESS memory.. everyone bitches.. *sigh* standard windows trolls *sigh*

The Metro start screen is totally skippable at boot, where do you get such nonsense? Again, standard Windows troll making comments that are totally false.

MS won't remove the "Search by type" results layout as that's a decision to help, once again, the 99% that got confused between documents, settings, and applications. For the power user, omg you have to click an added button.. hardhsip. For the normal user, it makes perfect sense.

Metro apps aren't at all more limited or less powerful than a desktop app - you can write a fully fledged Windows 8 metro application in c# if you so wish and use the entire .NET framework to do what you want. The *only* change is that they have to use the Windows RT security brokers to interact with the desktop/Internet/computer - oh no, Microsoft made something a bit more secure..everyone complain!

On the note about the home screen getting messy, it's just as messy as a start bar was in XP, Vista, or 7, just no power user cared to look through all their stuff as they just hit "start -> typed application they wanted -> enter" - for the standard user, the start bar was horrible, now they have perrrdy images of their applications to make their life easier....

 

You are still using Developer Preview ? Because in Consumer Preview, it can't be done as far as i know :
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/add-start-menu-windows-8-consumer-preview-installation-vistart/

 

Greetings!

So, for what do you use your PC?
At my job there is a minimum of 4 programs running (mail, browser, accounting and invoicing), then depending on the task I start opening spredsheets, docs, PDFs, IM, other programs, etc. Not uncommon to have to squeeze three open programs in the same screen.
Metro apps arent helpful at all. Too much screen space wasted.

Why would I add any live tiles for news, tech sites or tech forums in the Start Screen of the workplace PC?!

At work we still have Windows XP on some machines.
But the jump from XP->Vista-->7 was relatively smoother when compared to the jump from 7 to 8. There was nothing really hard to get used to. Search in Vista only.
The Taskbar on 7 is configured to never combine into a single button, no programs are pinned in the Taskbar, instead we use the Quicklaunch bar (yes, you can use it in Vista, 7 or even 8), still far more useful than the regular Taskbar pinning.

Yep. Metro apps just cant deliver. Too limited.

Of course. I can only speak for myself.
Do you speak for anyone else?

My average number of concurrent open tabs from December to April (according to TabCounter Firefox addon) was 40.
I did try to use Metro IE10, as you can probably guess, the 10 tabs limit didnt worked well for my use.

Never organized the Start Menu from Vista on. There was just no need to do it. Between the most used and the search all that was needed was easily obtained.
With the Start Screen we need to clean it up and arrange it. It adds user work.

If/When they are resizable as any other Windows program, maybe...

Where is the Windows built-in option to make 8 boot to Desktop?

It really isnt.

You read Microsoft guidelines for Metro apps? Or watched Microsofts videos about Metro apps?
Just the "touch first" guideline adds wasted screen on larger buttons.

Exactly. There was no need to organize it. Now, with the Start Screen, there is.

 

But you're talking like metro apps are there to replace desktop programs. Which is not the case. If you want to write a document use word, if you want to play angry Birds use a metro app. The metro apps are there to let you run tablety smart phone type apps. Basically whimsical stuff not real work stuff. Desktop programs aren't going to fall by the wayside because of metro apps.

 

We may all have to speak from a personal point of view, but the rest of us can still understand the needs of others, you seem incapable of doing that! 40 internet tabs, average! That isn't even close to normal, and I'm not quite sure how you manage it without getting into all kinds mess. My average is probably 3, but that will go up to a max of 15 and by that point it's getting close to unusable with the tabs too small, and it taking too long to find the tab I need. Even running multiple instances of a browser, it would become extremely painful to find the tab I needed from 40 open ones.

The majority of users don't use more than a few tabs at a time, yet you want MS to design just for you. Whisper this quietly, but they aren't forcing you to use the Metro version of IE, there's still a fully fledged desktop version that can handle your 40 tabs if needed.

The fact that you aren't even taking advantage of the superbar in Windows 7 tells me a lot about the way you view new features and changes. The quick launch bar is outdated in Windows 7, pinning programs to the taskbar is a much better solution, but hey I'm sure if you had your way you would have wanted MS to keep things as they were.

Having to organise the start screen is a valid criticism I suppose, although it doesn't exactly take long. Most people are used to organising their phone start screens, so most people will have very little uses with this.

As for your argument about not having programs running. I for one like to keep my computer resources for the programs that need them most. I don't want an e-mail client to take up valuable resources when running large photoshop files, or rendering in 3ds max. This becomes even more important in a work environment when companies tend to scrimp on the computer hardware. This might not be important to you, running just accounting and invoicing programs, but for people running programs that require as much performance as they can get, it starts to be important.

 

Release Preview

I know I'm late to the party, but I thought about trying the Windows 8 Release Preview.

I was going to install it to a boot-able USB flash drive and just boot it from that. Also, I don't really want to image my entire HDD if I have to. Will it be safe?

 

Mickey rather than messing about with partitions dual boots etc, why not just run it as a virtual machine on your existing windows installation. Virtualisation is a great way to check out different operating systems with no real risk.