Scotland vote to break away from Uk rule.

Look further ahead. If the Euro survives the decade it will be doing well. I can see Scotland going into the EU (eventually) with a longer term commitment to switch to the Euro based on all conditions being met and it being the right thing to do. However, the Euro is likely to disappear before then, so everyone's a winner. I think that's what Croatia are doing right now too.

Is that it? is that your whole opinion of independence for Scotland?

Oh....https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/intro/html/map.en.html

 

This is my not-quite-so-serious look from outside, please don't throw any lukewarm beer and halfcooked chips my way.

I'll start with a famous quote:

Some hate the English. I don't. They're just ******s. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by ******s. ​

I think this still counts, Scots probably do feel "colonised", they certainly didn't join the UK of their own free will if I'm informed correctly.

Split off in a friendly way, probably next to nothing will happen, as they're relatively self-governed now anyway.

UK-Euroskeptic BS, there are lots of countries that don't have the Euro in the EU
Only 18 of the 28 EU countries have the Euro.

UK and Denmark are exempt, and Sweden shows how to easily avoid fulfilling the necessary criteria, Other countries (an Independent Scotland for Instance) could use the Swedish workaround if they wouldn't want the euro.
I think the euro would be benificial though, to the UK as well.

Well, they probably want to, more than be obliged to.

The pound hasn't held up to well over the last couple of decades either, has it?
(hmmm, okay, it's gone up a bit over the last few years)

I thought Scotland already had a currency of it's own pegged to the Sterling?

And while you're at it, get that royal-rock back the English stole from you!

 

That did make me laugh!

You have been misinformed.

The treaty of the union was pretty much against the will of the majority of people in both England AND Scotland, it actually did initially benefit Scotland in a number of ways, mainly financially. But the world was a very different place in the early 1700's (wasn't it 1707?)

 

Lol, indeed, it's as misguided as the notion that the founding fathers of the USA left here because of persecution, no, they left so they could carry on persecuting as they believed Britain was becoming to open to other peoples and religions.

Britain and Denmark had opt out clauses written into the treaty and of the others not using the euro they just have yet to meet the conditions for adopting the single currency.

Oh, and another thing: Euro(currency)sceptic does not mean Eurosceptic. I'm pro-EU but not necessarily pro-Euro.

There is another option though, Scotland and Britain agree to use the pound (how that provides Independence I'm still unclear on though) and Britain leaves the EU. No problem there, except I don't want to leave the EU.

Currency, you have to laugh. Apparently there's nothing more British that Sterling and yet Sterling is based on an Anglo-Saxon currency so really we should be using the Euro like Germany

 

I'd be voting "no" but, as an exile, I don't get a vote. However, if I were still in Scotland, I'd like to think I'd vote "no", but then, I'm not being subjected to the relentless propaganda my friends and relatives tell me about. I'm not altogether convinced Salmond wants independence, I think he'll be more than happy with concessions gained from a no vote.

The only thing this has achieved is to rile up the knuckle draggers on both sides, and get them spouting their vitriolic bigoted sh!te.

I'm not happy that a no vote will not settle the matter though - it seems clear that some will seek a second referendum. "if at first you don't secede...". Although, I doubt a second bite at it will have as much traction.

 

There's so much guff about mate I think if there's a no vote then England & Wales may call for another referendum

 

You mean if, what most well informed people say would never happen ? Like it or not, for better or worse the euro is here to stay. But even if we entertain that it may collapse one day, deciding the future of a nation and the future of generations to come on what maybe, probably isn't a good thing to base a decision on. Especially when what you are relying on to happen would likely cause a recession of the likes that the world has ever seen.

No. That's my opinion on your claim that "Whatever fiscal policy is chosen is subject to separate debate and negotiation. Gibraltar is not part of the UK, but uses the pound." And Alex Salmond saying that an independent Scotland would both keep the pound and join the European Union.

Like i said "what new member states have said they are not going to convert to it." All the counties in the link you posted have committed to joining the euro.

The Scottish government cities Sweden which is outside the eurozone. They ignore the fact that Sweden has made the political and legal commitment to join the euro - is Scotland prepared to make that same commitment in good faith? All 28 other member states must determine a newly separate Scotland's membership application. It is questionable how a bad faith approach to negotiations would go down with them, the majority of whom have had to sign up to these principles.

 

The Independent are not well informed?
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/c...t-as-francogerman-core-crumbles-30549580.html

The choice IS subject to separate debate. The questions people are asking are making it part of the pre-decision discussion - I'm pretty sure Salmond himself would be happy to go with the Euro, but SNP may not be the in power come independence and Darling made it quite clear that whatever came out of Salmond's mouth was going to be wrong wrong wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Non-euro_currencies_of_the_European_Union
Those missing dates are jumping off the page!

Do you really believe, with all the trade that currently goes on in the EU, that the whole continent would shun Scotland for trying to negotiate a position post-self determination?

Does this help? http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/euro/countries/sweden_en.htm

 

To be fair the other dates are missing, in most cases, as the countries are still actively going through the process of convergence. They can't have a date until that is concluded.

Can I ask though, if Scotland uses Sterling, how can they truly be Independent? If I were there, voting yes, I would damn well not want another country controlling my currency - exactly the reasoning behind Britain not joining the Euro in the first place.

 

Can I counter-ask with why do you think the use of Sterling undermines independence? Look at China (one example of many) pegging their currency to the dollar.

 

More irrelevant links
I'm not sure how a spat between Germany and France is relevant to Scottish independence, or how Scotland is going to both keep the pound and join the EU.

Without knowing what the reprecuations of that choice are going to be ?

Yea, still waiting on that list of new member states that said they have no intention to adopt the euro.

Yes. Why would the present member states accept Scotland as an EU member if, as Alex Salmond has stated they intend to keep the pound ? After all they had to accept the euro, what makes Scotland a special case.

And how do you think the other member states would react if, as Alex Salmond threatened, Scotland reneges on its share of UK debt if they can't share sterling.

Sorry that link seems to be missing any information on Sweden stating that it's no intention to adopt the euro as its official currency.

 

Yes but they have their own currency and if you look at China it can manipulate the relationship between the Yuan and the Dollar that has created its own issues.

Scotland using Sterling would have their interest rates set by England, amongst other things, and differences in spending, taxation and so on could see us messing with each other on financial levels.

But if for no other reason than identity. The Scottish notes were to be abolished a couple of hundred years ago IIRC (not literally recall, I'm old but not that old), but the Scottish wouldn't let go of them as they were still part of Scottish identity. So why not have your own currency?

Edit: I guess in theory Scotland could join the EU without the euro if lawyers argue that they were part of Britains opt out but I would seriously wager that the EU would say that they must then have their own currency as members wishing to join must have their own central bank and I would expect that they would have to link it to the euro.

Mind you with the way things are going I could imagine a scenario where several countries do this very same thing and the euro falls back to a more solid smaller group of nations. Too many joined too quickly in any case.

In reality, who the hell knows? It does my head in and I'm not even voting, sooooo glad I'm not living there anymore - I would have stoved my TV in by now.

 

I don't believe the links are irrelevant, but all things being honest and equal of course you are correct. I'm fairly sure the process of joining the EU is as rigid as a job application. So Scotland can only exist in the EU as a province of the UK, not as a country, even though it is a country and not a province of the UK which actually makes the legality of it's current position rather unique. Of course one cannot expect any exceptions to be made, but that whole debate still has to take place.

What do you believe the effect would be if France were to pull out of the Euro?

Do you think a 19 year delay is acceptable? or should Sweden be kicked out of the EU for taking the mince?

What do you believe the actual effect of France pulling out of the EU would be?

Do you know what the repercussions are for staying in? does anyone, past the current government, other than that the scottish vote will be meaningless in the general election anyway?

 

I wish I had the answers mate. I wish, at least, those discussing the current vote even moved anywhere near discussing them. Actually, I wish for all of us those questions would be discussed, the EU isn't plain sailing at the moment (I don't even know if Greece exists as a country since last I heard about it on the news )

At the moment it seems any eventuality is possible - who knows, Scotland could make its way into the EU and the rest of Britain may have left (I hope not the latter BTW).

 

The possibility of the UK leaving the EU while Scotland joins raises another problem for an independent Scotland:

The EU hatred in Westminster is not currently aimed at Scotland (obviously), but if an independent Scotland would join the EU, just how brutal would the consequences be for Scotland if the lunatics in Westminster have to expand their EU hatred to include Scotland?

A very large part of what would become foreign trade for Scotland in case of independence is with the UK.

Just how badly would Scotlands trade with the UK suffer from all the extra red tape and bureaucracy and what is their plan b for their economy if they could no longer trade easily with the UK?

 

Trade will be affected anyway.

The independent analyst I saw on the NE&Scotland debate the other night said that throughout history across the world it is shown that trade decreases between nations that have borders, even if they're not physical. That just happens over time due to a change in regulations, policies and so on.

 

It's not a matter of an independent Scotland not being able to join the EU, it's that Alex Salmond has said he will keep the pound AND join the EU, the two are not compatible.

If an independent Scotland want's to join the EU adopting the euro as a currency is a part of that joining process, yes it may take time for that process to reach its conclusion, but eventually an independent Scotland would have to adopt the euro and all that goes with it.

And how do you propose any country leaves the euro, how would you prevent capital flight ?
Would you be happy to pay punitive interest rates to persuade bond market investors ?
How you you prevent runaway inflation, how would prevent your new currency falling through the floor ?
The consequence of leaving the euro would far more damaging than staying in it by a long, long way.
This article give a good explanation on exactly the scenario you propose.

No i don't think the delay is acceptable, but then again Sweden was a member of the EU before the single currency, Scotland would be a new member.

No one can predict the future, all we can do is make educated guesses. Isn't that after all why people debate these things, ask question and all the rest ? So that we can make an educated guess on what choice to make.

 

Not quite - if it were a separate currency then shop keepers in England would be able to refuse to take Scottish notes, a lot try anyway which brought about the stock in trade phrase "I think you'll find, that's legal tender!" We've just got three banks which are authorised by the BoE to print Sterling promissory notes.

That wee rock from Scoon? It kina' got coughlostcough...

 

Don't even start mate, if it wasn't for the Scots and various Europeans England would still be a Republic and there would be no need for this referendum - damn you *shakes fist*

Now, as for them pesky Romans....

 

Scottish banknotes are legal currency, not legal tender.

Not that it matters much, it's just if you gave me a Scottish banknote to settle a debt i could in theory later claim you failed to settle your debt and sue you. The freaky thing is the English banknote isn't legal tender in Scotland and Northern Ireland.