E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

It's not really a new thing, the ridiculous hyperbole of fear politics tends rear its head every few generations, last time it was Thatcher with statements like British people were afraid they "might be rather swamped by people with a different culture" and before that was Enoch Powell with his rivers of blood speech.

All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again, it seems not everyone learns from histories mistakes.

 

There goes Tokyo London...

 

There goes Airbus, quite possibly.

Oh, and there goes the UK - US Open Skies agreement. Turns out when you are outside the EU, you don't get to make better deals for your country.

 

Looks like Italy is adding to the EUs woes. Can't see that helping negotiations.

 

'Even by Italy's standards... it's a ****ing mess'

 

None of its populist right-wing parties want to leave the EU however. Whatever happens, there won't be an Itexit.

 

Also probably too late in the game for any Italian mentalism to have much of an effect on the brexit 'negotiations'.

 

I wonder if leave voters are feeling a little betrayed now Mrs May has changed her tune, before the referendum we were told the idea that trade will suffer was silly, that we'd get a deal that would offer the exact same benefits, etc, etc.

Now though it seems Mrs May is saying quiet the opposite, that we won't enjoy all the benefits and access to each others markets will be less than it is now.

Is this more project fear or just a hint of project reality.

 

​

The only Brexit negotiations that have been taking place are happening in the Tory party. The EU's offer has been on the table since October 2016. It is just waiting for the UK to catch up reality.

 

Most Leave voters rationalise their decision after the fact (which is easy, because it had no rational basis in the first place). They are already saying that it was not about the money, that it was about 'sovereignty' (without knowing what that really means, otherwise they'd be feeling pretty betrayed on that point as well) and 'control over the borders'. The narrative of even pro-Leave economists has already changed from 'sunny uplands' to 'very limited impact' on the economy.

There will be more of this in months to come as more unicorns get slaughtered. Eventually people will say it was all about blue passports.

 

True but i was expecting leave voters to be a little more vociferous as everything they were promised slowly turns to dust, instead it seems they're happy to remain silent and let the politicians break yet more promises.

 

As I said before, most Leave voters didn't really think about it before, so they're not really thinking about it now. They voted to Leave, the UK is Leaving, so they think that they are getting what they want and anything else is just toooo complicated so they switch off from it.

By the time that they realise, some years from now, that they are not better off but worse, that there are still plenty of brown people around, and that they now have to join the queue with the rest of the world when landing in Lanzarote airport, then perhaps the realisation may dawn on them that this is not the Brexit that they voted for. But they will blame the government for doing it wrong, and blame the EU for being difficult, not themselves for making a stupid choice.

What we've got here, fundamentally, is a Leave voter base which, if we set aside the 41% who are pensioners, is mostly people who missed the economic bus the first time around because they are too unskilled or too feckless to get a job in a country that had one of the fastest growing economies and the lowest unemployment rate in history, and in which three million EU immigrants managed to find gainful employment. These people do not exactly have, shall we say, an internal locus of control. They will always blame someone else for their own misfortune. Junkie logic. The pensioners meanwhile don't care; they just want to roll back the UK to the 60's, which was the time that they last understood the world. For them Brexit was a nostalgia vote.

 

Agreed. I think brexiters are making a big mistake with lumping other countries political situations with brexit. Italian politics and history of it is very different to ours. Wasn't long ago when far-right terrorist group bombed Bologna train station. And don't forget Farage poked his face in Austrian elections, exclaiming "Brexit was first brick out of the wall" - how wrong he was. There will be no similar brexit Europe mainland despite the rise of far-right populist parties.

 

Just read the BBC article about the UK needing to go on a diet. First comment I read made me laugh

 

Development anyone with eyes and a functional brain cell could see coming #89653:

 

'Why did no one warn us!' exclaim people who ignored all the warnings...

 

Funny isn't it. A good question, that wasn't answered, was asked on QT.

Brexit, going ahead no matter what as it's the "will off the people" even if evidence suggests it will be hugely damaging to the nation.

A council and locals rejected some fracking company who wanted to test their area, the Government overruled them as it was in the "national interest" even though that goes agains the "will of the people".

Hello circle, meet square.

 

They answer Questions? i thought it was either a PMQs-esque slanging match or a UKIP Supporter circle-jerk most weeks...

 

So it turns out companies in the EU are more concerned with protecting the integrity of the single market than maintaining favorable terms with the UK, how silly is that, don't they know they need us more than we need them.

 

Funny thing is: Austria's Freedom Party doesn't want to leave the EU either. Neither does Germany's AfD party. France's Front National has dropped even getting rid of the Euro from their manifesto. The only party still harbouring ideas of leaving the EU are the Dutch PVV, and they haven't cottoned on yet that under Dutch constitutional law they couldn't hold an EU referendum even if they were in power.

Also: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...spect-of-easy-uk-us-trade-deal-is-an-illusion

Yeah, Farage got booed on that for that very same reason: he argued in favour of fracking, so an audience member pointed out that it was clearly the "will of the people", as demonstrated by the Council vote, that it shouldn't go ahead. Farage then mumbled something about perhaps they could hold a referendum on the issue... even though people had already voted against it.