Bit-Tech Brexit Poll

Up until 2016 It's an easy cop-out to dismiss everyone that disagrees with your view as racist, The guardianista left will never again have to sink to such depths, never again.
How many more times will they have to sink to these depths before they realize they woke up on the wrong side of history.

At this rate the only racists left in the world will be the 48% minus the ones who woke the **** up.

 

Note that The Times went for Remain. Also that part of the issue was that Mirror readers voted Leave.

 

I don't think I ever said that 17 million people are all racist (although racists never think they are...). I said that they were dumb to protest about their circumstances by voting for giving more power to the people who did it to them in the first place. That they were dumb to vote without knowing what 'out' means or what an exit plan would look like; that they were dumb to eulogise as knights of sovereignty and the common man the same politicians who they last year vilified as lying fat cats in it for themselves. I mean, when did Johnson and Gove suddenly become heroes?

And yeah, I know how **** people's lives are and what their sentiment is. I have been homeless myself and I did my first tour of duty in community mental health in Hull. I know how deprivation feels and looks from all angles. But just because people's feelings may be valid, that doesn't mean their thinking or actions are.

Westminster will learn nothing from this, except to have its beliefs confirmed:
- Don't give people any real decision making power.
- People will believe anything you tell them.
- People are stupid; the more power you take from them, the more they give you.

 

Did you even bother reading the link i provided?

It's not a poll, it's not a politician saying something, it was a survey of 12,369 people after they had voted, now if you have a better way of gathering demographics I'm all ears.

If the last 48 hours has taught me anything it's that vast swaths of the UK population are a bunch of tin-foil hat wearing xenophobic dreamers who couldn't recognise a fact if it lept up and bit them on the arse.

 

I know that question was directed at Nexxo but i feel it necessary to point out that while 17m people may not be racist a large percentage of those who voted to leave are.

Based on a poll that showed 25% of Brexit supports wanted to deport immigrants and the 17m odd people that vote leave i think it's safe to say around 4m people were at least highly xenophobic.

And of course there's also the Post EU Referendum Racism [that's been] Documented Online, and then there's the Far Right wave of racist abuse that's being investigated by police.

 

"A lot of people have been saying that as soon as there is a Leave vote then the Article 50 process begins straight away. Completely wrong. In fact that would be like putting a gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger.” --Dominic Cummings, former advisor to Michael Gove, in the Economist 21.01.16

 

personally I would love to see the government go `**** it - article 50 , no negotiations , its WTO for us` - Germany and france would go into meltdown - would be a laugh to see..... in a sadistic , country falls apart way

 

That just goes to show how sane your thinking about this issue is.

So far everything that Vote Leave promised has been reneged upon: Lower immigration, more money for the NHS, invoking article 50 immediately, a clear exit plan.

Everything that Remain predicted has happened: The pound is dropping still, markets are in turmoil, the UK economy is shrinking rapidly.

What does that tell you? "Hey, let's go all the way and **** everything up just for laughs!". So this is the positive, optimistic can-do 'Believe in Briain' Leaver spirit? I AM starting to understand why people voted Leave.

 

It seems to me that where the laws come from that UK citizens have to comply with matters a great deal. In a democracy, the population must be able to hold the lawmakers to democratic account. That, for me at least, was one of the key reasons why I voted Leave (ie, the lack of democratic accountability upon which key EU institutions, like the Commission, are constructed). I’m not sure how anyone who is in favour of democracy can, at the same time, not be concerned with where laws come from (ie, who makes them).
After the referendum result, it was certainly remarkable to see a line of supposedly democratic politicians coming on TV and social media to express disgust at the results of democracy. That, to me, says a lot about what is wrong with our political class. The crying, the demands (from individuals like David Lammy MP) to pretty much ignore the referendum result, and the arrogant contempt some on the Remain side have shown for the result of a fair, free and democratic referendum has been and continues to be breath-taking. It is amazing that some individuals are greeting the return of parliamentary democracy with screams of terror. Now the bitter losers from all parties are trying to either block or overturn the referendum outcome.

As you have implied, it is quite possible to run a trade agreement without political integration. NAFTA is an example. There is no sensible reason to insist that free movement of labour and membership of the single market *must* go hand in hand, unless the end goal is to create a single super state (which implies a single defence policy and EU army). Of course membership of the single market and access to it are different: The USA has access to the single market, but is not a member of it.
A trade deal with the remaining EU countries will need to be struck, and what form that takes remains an open question, and a source of uncertainty. There are various alternatives which have been suggested, for example a deal similar to the one Norway has (which I think is sub-optimal). Of course it would be foolish for the UK to precisely define what it wants: When entering negotiations, any country will not fully show it's hand prior to the event. One thing is for sure: An economically strong UK is in the EU’s interest, and an economically strong EU is in the UK’s interest. I think that gives an indication of the kind of deal is likely to be struck. Therefore, it’s not the case that the UK intends to leave the EU ‘without a plan’. ‘Without a plan’ might imply we have to develop everything from the ground up. But the UK does not: We have a currency, central bank and key institutions necessary to run a country (rather unlike Scotland for example). The EU did not give the UK all this, the UK had it well before. It seems to me to try to reduce this down to the UK ‘leaping into the unknown’ is actually to accept the most naive and simplistic propaganda.

 

The UK has no plan. That has been admitted by everybody. Nobody is stepping forward to invoke Article 50; that should tell you something too.

Democracy is all well and good, but if we held a referendum tomorrow on whether people should pay taxes what would be the outcome, you think? But would listening to a majority "no" vote on that issue be a fiscally responsible way of running the country?

That is why there is a representative democracy. Because whether it sounds PC or not, most ordinary folk don't actually understand what it takes to run a country. We elect experts for that. And now some of those experts have made wild promises of what is possible and when 52% of the electorate said: "Sounds good, we'll have that" they got unstuck.

Yo dawg, I heard you like sovereignty. Well sovereignty means that parliament has the final say. Not the electorate, not a referendum. Because they are actually held to account for running the country. The electorate just has an opinion.

Another Bregretter, by the way: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...ote-latest-news-bregret-the-sun-a7105431.html

 

Will people please stop pedaling this myth, the EU is *more* democratic than the UK, not less.

To say the EU lacks democratic accountability when the UK has even less democratic accountability makes it seem like you don't know what you're talking about.

 

That's because he doesn't know what he is talking about.

 

huh - it's the sociopath anarchist in me not the realist

EU have said to tell them formally by Wednesday the outcome of the referendum , thus triggering article 50 - and no one on in government will do that.

will the SNP go for a no confidence on Wednesday? how many of those tories would put the courage of their convictions ahead of a legitimate democratic mandate?

as I have said before - I genuinely believe that no one (except farage , twice on Thursday night) thought LEAVE would win

 

I suspect even a lot of remain voters will punish the Tories very severely in the next general election if they ignore the referendum by not invoking Article 50, so it doesn't matter which one of theirs they put forward as the sacrificial lamb to invoke it.
If they don't want to battle it out with the Greens for least relevant party they have no choice.

 

So it's a fair referendum lie in an election to get more voters? Considering I know people who were swung by that nice NHS poster, it's not really a fair is it? We keep banging on about the 'will of the people', steer our own ship, rule ourselves and whatever else are the buzz words of the day, but if lies were revealed last weekend instead of this weekend, the vote would have been different it proves we in fact have not respected 'the will of the people', we are not steering our own ship and we're definitely not ruling ourselves.

The EU vote isn't a general election where we can wait a couple of years and there's another one, this is supposed to be a once in a generation thing and it needs to be done right.

The politicians should be taken to task for this, because if they're not they'll feel free to make even bigger and wilder claims to win the vote with no intention of honouring them, it'll all be a massive farce.

Having parliament ignore this is not the answer, they gave it to the people to decide, and they need to decide. Now with those lies out in the open and it's still a Leave vote, that's fine because at least they know the truth. Putting a cross on another piece of paper is not a big thing to do if you do value democracy.

 

Looks like the Labour party is giving them a run for their money when it comes to least relevant party.

I'm seeing the Lib Dems in a different light these days.

 

Also those "informal negotiations before invoking Article 50" have been rejected by Germans now too.

 

If it's acceptable for pre-referendum promises to be completely detached from reality then I reckon they should let their imaginations run wild. At least it'll be more entertaining.

 

"Unicorns for everybody!"

 

Yes its acceptable for politicians to lie, They have been doing it before any of us were born. Thats there nature, Take what they say with a pinch of salt.