E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

I read books.

I'm weird like that.

 

Philistine.

 

Yeah, tbh barely watch tv when we have our yearly Finnish trip.

Hammock, sunglasses and book is the usual for me.

 

What about that great British habit of getting so drunk you cant actually read?

 

You can read? I'm well jel.

 

Watching JR Mogg on tv, he always speaks very well and puts his point across but he wears such badly fitting suits it irks me.

 

Except that his reasoning is shallow and immature, and not a little insincere.

People are dazzled by his eloquence and cut-glass accent, and charmed by his eccentric appearance. He is a bit like Boris Johnson's more well-spoken brother, or Nigel Farage's more sophisticated cousin from the city. But it's cult of personality stuff all the same. He is not as intelligent as people think he is.

 

Appearing intelligent (regardless of that being backed up by actual high intelligence or not) is a huge upgrade over many other UK politicians...

 

I wouldn't call being opposed to abortion, same sex marriage, and deferring moral judgements to The Old Testament intelligent.

 

However you feel about his politics at least he doesn't take himself to seriously.



Source, the Beno's twitter account.

 

If people are dazzled that’s more reflective of the intelligance of the electorate than JRM.

Its quite refreshing for someone in the conservative party to actually be conservative or just generally have an opinion on something.

I don't have to like or support his views but very few politicians conduct there politics in a well mannered eloquent way, which really should be the bare minimum.

 

Problem is: JRM is the dumb person's idea of what a smart person looks and sounds like. Therefore they give undue weight to his opinion, which is really no different, nor more considered than that of, say, Anne Widdecombe.

Having an opinion is not a virtue. Using big words is not a virtue. Living in your own bubble universe of inherited privilege is certainly not a virtue, so the New Testament tells us. A well-mannered, verbose hypocritical dick is still a hypocritical dick.

 

Again you don’t have to like or support those views but it is important to have different views in a two party system even if you find them abhorrent.

Otherwise we end up like we have since Blair’s new labour with two parties that are virtually the same and don’t really stand for anything. People become disenchanted with all politicians being the same and vote for stupid things.

Thankfully that now seems to be changing recently, well for Labour at least.

 

That sounds like an argument for having a wider variety of stupid things to vote for. I think that bad ideas and opinions need to be challenged, not tolerated under the pretext of balance of views. Not all ideas or opinions are equal. The right to an opinion does not equal the right for it to be unconditionally respected.

The problem, IMHO* is that there are no mature politicians who treat the electorate like mature adults (in Transactional Analysis terms, we have a bunch of Parent-in-Child politicians vs a Child electorate: an immature person trying to channel an immature electorate's idea of an ideal parent). JRM pretends to be mature, but to any adult he comes off as a caricature. Same with Theresa May. More obviously so with BoJo. Farage doesn't even try --he just channels the rebellious Child in the electorate which is why so many people think he speaks for them.

If you don't treat the electorate as mature adults, you basically don't set mature expectations on hem. You validate and reinforce their immature worldview and behaviour. And they vote for stupid things.

* DISCLAIMER: your experience of the humility of my opinions may vary; their humility may go up as well as down. Always consult your ego.

 

I think it is his job, and the electorate, that he is not taking seriously.

 

They do need to be challenged and debated in the same way "good" ideas need to be challenged also.
We have had roughly 20-30 years of both parties basically singing from the same hymn sheet while not really being challenged by anyone.

I don't know how you go about treating the electorate as mature adults now, they vote tribally and your almost guaranteed to lose if you do so.
I guess it would start by reinstating some kind of decent education system but that would take generations, in essence Britiain is screwed.

 

Not really, if it was the only thing to go on then yes you would be correct, but you also have to view it in context of his peers and of course some of them do set the bar very low.

With JRM you get the impression that even if you disagree with every last one of his DUP Cavetroll level religiously conservative views you could have a civilized discussion that ends with words like "lets agree to disagree" where as with some of his peers like for example Boris Johnson the only question is if you would tear your hair out in frustration or punch him in the face first.

 

It's a bit of chicken and egg situation, was it the electorate or the politicians who stopped taking things seriously? Personally I'd say it was the electorate as after decades of disaster capitalism, the selling off of the countries assets to private investors, the marginalising of workers, laissez-faire economic liberalism, and a whole list of other changes the electorate have mostly rolled over and given up.

Why take something seriously if you've been ignored for decades, it gets to the stage where you just accept that no matter what you say or do you're still going to get pooped upon.

 

The problem is that it's not simply a matter of "let's agree to disagree". Being a politician, he tries to impose his views on society. He doesn't just live by them; he wants others to live by them too. Doesn't matter that he is being "civilised" about it.

Which is why most people voted Brexit. Of course if you want to be taken seriously, you first have to act seriously. Be the change etc.