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E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

Discussion in 'Serious' started by TheBlackSwordsMan, 22 Feb 2016.

  1. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    Last edited: 14 Nov 2019
  2. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    Talking of the Brexit Party...

     
  3. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    It's like Binface is telling Buckethead: "I AM YOUR FATHER!!!"...
     
  4. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    Last edited: 14 Nov 2019
  5. edzieba

    edzieba Virtual Realist

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    Free broadband for all, eh?
    My gut reaction was "why not power and water first if we're going to nationalise utilities?", but data is a bit different to those in that almost all the cost is in the initial infrastructure rollout. Ongoing operational costs are a relatively small component and most of the cost is amortised install & setup (unlike power where the ongoing cost is dominated by fuel and plant maintenance, or water where the ongoing cost is dominated by water treatment). And given that almost every building already has Broadband (or only lacks it for lack of ability to get it) it seems pretty ripe for common-provider cost sharing. And while nationalising Openreach alone for a fibre rollout seems like an attractive 'middle ground' it just has all the drawbacks of using public funds to perform the rollout (letting for-profit ISPs off he hook) but having end users till pay out to for-porfit ISPs to actually make use of that investment. Same sillyness as building a road network with public funds and then having private companies charge tolls, or the current state of the rail network.
    Biggest rub would be business services where you actually do want your own Phat Pipe all for yourself with SLAs and whatnot. Without economies of scale, ISPs offering those services with their own equipment would only be able to offer reasonable rates in areas where they could service multiple customers from the same exchange (rather than needing to drop in their entire own stack to service just one link) rather than having sufficient customer distribution to spread that cost.
     
  6. damien c

    damien c Mad FPS Gamer

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    It is one of the most stupid things I have ever heard.

    The cost to do it would be out of this world high, the 20 Billion quoted is a drop in the water of what would be required.

    The cost to build the network, maintain and purchase the bandwidth on the peering links etc etc could eat that 20 Billion up in less than 3 months.

    Cost of creating a ISP with it's own network and even using other companies networks are high, it's what stop's the average joe from just deciding to start one with a couple of grand in their back pocket.

    Having designed, costed and pitched to companies in the past to build a network for them, I know the costs involved and to do it on a national scale frankly I want some of what corbyn is smoking because it must be real damn good stuff!
     
  7. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    Maybe i'm cynically minded whilst I don;t trust BT et al either on this either particularly...

    If the govt owns the infrastructure... and thus decides what it can and can't be used for... what's stop a Corbyn or future tory govt basically turning the uk's internet into... well... china...

    Abbott [a likely home sec under a potential PM Corbyn] thought the porno block was a good idea and went 'won't someone think of the childrens' when it was eventually laughed out of the room.

    ...or we could end up with another Home Sec like Maybot further down the line.
     
  8. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    The government doesn't need to own the infrastructure for that to happen: it just needs to pass an Act of Parliament. See also: the fact that every piece of internet traffic that passes through the UK¹ is checked against a mandatory blacklist.

    1: Yes, yes, apart from the encrypted stuff inside a VPN tunnel.
     
  9. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    We should just put these guys in charge of our broadband instead of Labour / Tories / Openreach...

    https://b4rn.org.uk
     
  10. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    I can't vouch for the validity of the claims made in this article but i thought it was an interesting read, was there really plans in the 80's to replace the old copper wires with fiber?
     
  11. edzieba

    edzieba Virtual Realist

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    A national fibre rollout needs to happen, the ancient last-mile PoTS infrastructure is only going to continue deteriorating. whatever billions it's going to cost will need to be paid, and that cost is eventually going to fall to the end user. This can either happen by a coordinated national rollout, by a hodgepodge of private rollouts who all want their extra cut to skim off (and whose base price is higher due to lack of economies of scale and wasted repeat-effort e.g. for street work), or a hodgepodge of private rollouts that fail and end to be bailed out, and everyone ends up paying twice for a half0assed job (see: the US broadband rollout).
    The ISP already exists. It's called Openreach, and unless you have VM (DOCSIS network) or are in one of the handful of shared occupency buildings served by one of the new fibre rollout companies, they're the ones operating your broadband link. BT, Sky, Talktalk, Plusnet, etc are all handling billing and customer support, but it's Openreach hardware at the other end of the wire into your home.

    As for back-yard ISPs: you can roll your own WISP with near-consumer grade hardware (it's what Ubiquiti got started selling) and many in the US have done to make up for their atrocious coverage situation. Set up your backhaul link, set up your LoS RF links top resell service over, and you're an ISP.
     
  12. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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  13. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    Boris Johnson's battlebus has been spotted...

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    Looks like someone hacked Arron Banks twitter account and published the data.
     
  15. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    Wasn't me.
     
  16. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Well-Known Member

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    The irony is thick and sticky there.
     
  17. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    Calling the debate(s) now...

    Politician a: *lies*
    Politician B: That's a Lie!
    A: But people hate your face
    B: I heard you murder puppies
    C, off camera: See, this is why they're both pricks and you should vote for me
    A+B: Don;t vote for C, you're only wasting your vote...

    ...and repeat for an hour.
     
  18. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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  19. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    Several people (including me) have reported them to Twitter for misrepresentation.
     
  20. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    So have i tbh, but Twatter probably gonna **** and let it slide... Because Dorsey et al are ****ing cowards...
     

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