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HDR in Far Cry

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Blackfish23, 18 Apr 2005.

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Are you using HDR in Far Cry, and is it worth it?

  1. No

    56.7%
  2. No + Its not worth it

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Yes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Yes + Its worth it

    43.3%
  1. barry_n

    barry_n New Member

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    sorry to go slightly off topic, i read in the bit-tech x800 xl overclocking article they cudnt do hdr in things like far cry cus of sum 8bit or 16 bit shizzle, is that the same for all the x800 range, if that is so how does hdr expect to work on hl2 with those cards...
     
  2. dead_man

    dead_man Confucious say: WTF???

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    thatsthe same with all the current ati cards iirc
     
  3. Firehed

    Firehed Why not? I own a domain to match.

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    IMO, Dam (in the lava'd area) is by far the most demanding part of the game.

    I'm going to have to give it a try. I hope I can run 1600x1200 0xAA 2xAF with HDR... without it, I can get 2xAA 8xAF which I'm pretty sure is crippled by my 3000+ (@2.25) and not so much my SLI 6800GTs. However going by that graph... not so much. But I'd prefer 0x/0x before going to 1280x1024, since 1600x1200 is pretty much 2xAA in itself.
     
  4. Malvolio

    Malvolio .

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    Weird :eyebrow: But I guess your right. I've noticed a good bump in game visuals after enabling it though, and it seems to work... Maybe the game just decided to go all weird on me and enabled something else...?


    I'm lost :confused:
     
  5. smoguzbenjamin

    smoguzbenjamin "That guy"

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    May I ask what level you enabled it at, malf?
     
  6. Malvolio

    Malvolio .

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    Level of HDR, or level in the game? I enabled it in training utilizing 7 (as recomended by a few people). I've played through the game a few times on this setting, and noticed no problems what so ever (other then a few triggers not being set off for no reason at all).
     
  7. Tim S

    Tim S OG

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    I don't think that there will be a requirement for a GeForce 6 series card, or one that can do 16 bit floating point blending - I have a feeling that Valve will implement HDR in a different way to what has been seen so far. Don't forget that Valve are in ATI's pockets/vice versa so it'd be a PR nightmare for them to not enable HDR on the Radeon X800/X700 series at the bare minimum.

    Malf - screen shots please, I just find it very hard to believe when the architecture is a strict fixed point floating point architecture. The Radeon Xxxx and Radeon 9xxx series all use 24-bit floating points and the OpenEXR file format for HDR that is used in FarCry requires the architecture to be able to do 16-bit floating point blending, which the Radeon 9xxx and Xxxx series cannot do.

    I'll quote myself:



    You can't run HDR with Anti-Aliasing either Malf... which makes things even less believable.
     
    Last edited: 19 Apr 2005
  8. dead_man

    dead_man Confucious say: WTF???

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    yea look at his system specs, what a load of crock :wallbash:

    2400+ sempron with those fps - and bigz with the FX-55 :confused:
     
  9. Malvolio

    Malvolio .

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    Like I stated, I believe you 100%, the game must just be enabling something different or I have no clue what. Here's what my game is set to plus screen shots with it on and off:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Without HDR
    With HDR


    I can't explain it anyway :confused:
     
  10. hughwi

    hughwi Well-Known Member

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    That is really weird Malf, i think i will fire up FarCry on my 9800pro and give this a shot, see if i see the same results. I'll let you know!
     
  11. Tim S

    Tim S OG

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    that's really really weird - I've just been on the phone with ATI, and I've asked them to investigate it themselves too because this could be something very interesting.... :)
     
  12. Malvolio

    Malvolio .

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    Whats even more confusing is that now the game won't even boot for me :eyebrow: I just tried to play through a normal game as I've got some time to waste before school, and it just freezes at the ubisoft screen... Guess I'll reinstall it. :sigh:
     
  13. Tim S

    Tim S OG

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    Right, basically the answer goes along the lines of:

    ATI only offer a 24-bit floating point precision with its current architecture and when you enable HDR in FarCry on any of their current products, the game adds extra bloom and increases the brightness slightly to give different look to the title.

    Basically, it runs another path in the game engine, but this is not the HDR path as the hardware does not support the 16-bit floating point blending and 16-bit floating point frame buffer that are required to use the OpenEXR file format, as already mentioned above.
     
  14. Blackfish23

    Blackfish23 Member

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    Those screenies look pretty damn sweet. lol @Malfo, what make/model is your 9800pro

    Does this mean that ATI uses could enable this 'feature' in chaos theory for example?
     
  15. Blackfish23

    Blackfish23 Member

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    Okay something also a bit weird.

    I lowered my resolution to 1024x768 (still at 32bit). Using the far cry configuration tool i set AA to 2 and AF to 4. And for some reason i can run HDR level 7 with no problem. However at 1280 x 1024 you cant use Antiatialising.

    So, 1024x768x32 2AA 4AF and HDR_7 Everything set to Very High, Ultra High Water and Trilinear Filtering you can run HDR with Anti-atialising!
     
  16. Tim S

    Tim S OG

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    Blackfish23, did you read my posts at all? :confused:

    You can not run HDR on a Radeon 9800 Pro, and I explained why - the information came direct from ATI.

    Also, you can not run HDR with Anti-Aliasing - if you are running both, it will disable Anti-Aliasing, or run with the 'hacked' bloom method that seems to be used when you try and enable HDR on an ATI card. I've not investigated yet, but plan to when I've finished with what I'm writing about at the moment.

    I could type this in bold, or larger text to spell it out a bit clearer than I already have done. However, that is considered rude and not abiding to netiquette so I'll refrain from doing so for now.
     
  17. Blackfish23

    Blackfish23 Member

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    When i said about the ATI i stated 'feature' meaning bloom. meaning that even though ATI cant use HDR, their 'bloom' effect looks pretty good, also considering it may have less affect on performance then hdr (so maybe a good alternative) sorry don't think i made that v.clear :duh: .

    Well I'm forcing AA using the driver profile, and have it set in the opitions for far cry. when i tried AA with HDR before it was crazy artifaction and almost a 'no clipping' effect. But with it 'apparently' enabled it runs with as smooth as edges when AA is enabled without HDR (hope that makes sense) but thats how it looks. :worried:
     
  18. Tim S

    Tim S OG

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    HDR is different to bloom. Bloom just adds a lot more exposure to areas, whereas HDR is dynamic lighting, as you would see in real life when you look at a light source. The lighting changes depending on how long you've looked at the object, and on a number of other factors such as your direct surroundings in comparison to the light source's surroundings and the surroundings in between you and the light source.

    You can't run FSAA and HDR at the same time, because Anti-Aliasing is applied at the same time as the 16-bit floating point blend would be applied. Both Anti-Aliasing and HDR Rendering have to be the last stage of the pixel processing in the pixel output engine, and one can't happen before the other - each has to be the last stage, and thus they can't be run together.

    If you are using AA, and getting smooth edges, you're more than likely using bloom rather than HDR.
     
  19. Blackfish23

    Blackfish23 Member

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    I understand that HDR is different to bloom and have done all along. I was just saying that from those screenshots it look good, but not as interactive (retinal exposure).

    Have played around with the settings enabling and dis-abling AA AF. When i select AA to 0, the HDR effect is definately happening, light source decreasing after length of exposure. I increased to 2 AA and still the HDR effect seems apparent and the edges do seem smoother. I will just try 4 AA.

    I am listening when you say that AA will be disabled even though i may select it, but when looking at my screen the edges do seem smoother with it enabled. I may have to accept it that it may just be my eyes because like you say its impossible. but it does seem different
    :sigh:
     
  20. Da Dego

    Da Dego Brett Thomas

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    Blackfish23,

    "What we have here is a failure to communicate..."

    It seems there's a problem with symantics here. What you are experiencing is not actually HDR. It is bloom. You say you are aware that these are two different concepts, but in your posts you keep saying you are viewing HDR. This seems to be driving bigz crazy, and reasonably so.

    You may be turning on bloom by typing in the command for HDR, but as bigz explained furthur up, your post-processing filter is being taken up by AA. You still get bloom, which WILL provide a different effect than if you did not enable anything, but the processes are very different at the computational level. Bloom is a 'best-guess' designed to simulate a few of the things which HDR is now capable of outright calculating, such as providing lighting flares, spotting, and discoloration due to light sources, your proximity to them, and exposure to them.

    Since bloom is a simulation of HDR, you may see similar effects. This 'extra filter' is what Crytek encoded in the game for people with ATi cards (powerful in their own right, but lacking the FPU and pixelshader 3.0) and people with weaker NVidea cards (read: Not 6 series). When your post-processing is clearly taken up with AA, you override HDR and instead turn on bloom. Bloom, being a different effect, can run with AA, and actually looks best with some. It's like Ragdoll Physics versus a PPU. One is a good approximation of some of it, the other just is IT.

    HDR, unlike bloom, flat out CANNOT run with AA enabled. The game will crash when both are called into play. Again, this won't happen with bloom, so you'll seem to get the effect AND get your AA, because you chose AA instead. The game will no longer 'see' the post processing resources available at the end of the pipe and instead enables bloom, just like for an ATi card which is missing the commands entirely.

    To see the difference, set your drivers at "application controlled" or even "none" AA settings and in farcry set it to 0. Then enable HDR. You will get a different picture that looks similar to what you had before, but the subtle differences are where it's all at. Stare at the sun, then look at the ground, etc. You'll see what I mean.

    I hope this helps clear up some of the miscommunication.

    (edited for a little more clarity)
     
    Last edited: 20 Apr 2005

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