Graphics Is this why nvidia is being very quiet on Fermi?

@barndoor101

you might be right but its not what I've read....

soon though no doubt... but ati seem behind... always behind with driver stuff.

 

Anand made this point - ATi made both of those leaps in the 4770, which gave them time to sort out any problems, but early enough in the dev cycle for the HD5xxx.

nvidia did the same by making the GT210 etc but it was too late to input the same knowledge into fermi.

@memeroot: In my mind the current push for 3d is being marketed by electronics companies and graphics companies. why? so you will ditch the LCD TV you bought 2 years ago and buy a brand new one which can do 3d. god only knows what new 'killer-feature' will be around 2 years after that to make you ditch your 3d TV.

 

my money is on 4d...or built-in card readers so you can swipe ur credit card when u buy stuff online...hey, that's not a bad idea...

 

LOL zombies attacking you through space-time.

 

@barndoor101

in my mind that's the case with all new technology... no I'm not replacing my 5 year old plasma or my 3 year old projector.

however replacing my 19"2nd monitor with a 24" monitor makes sense and 3D for games is a heck of a lot more interesting than anything else that's happened in the last few years of PC gaming (ah the novt falcon... if only)

A new monitor is also cheap as chips to be honest...

 

Memeroot's pretty much got what I'm hoping for too; nice graphics are all well and good and innovative gameplay's interesting up to a point if you can make it stick, but if we're honest graphics and quality of game design are on a steady upward incline and have been for years. So whilst it's nice that new games look nice and play pretty well, it's been a while since I saw something on the back of a game box that made me think wow, that looks killer. For reference, Valve's physics engine was the last thing I considered far-reachingly groundbreaking (I know there's been plenty of innovation since, but the advent of that realist physics has made a big difference to the way I play games). Other than that, we get bigger games (S.T.A.L.K.E.R., GTA: San Andreas, Just Cause), prettier games (Far Cry 2, Crysis), more customizable games (Borderlands) etc, but what we don't seem to get is a genuine innovation that sticks.

I've nothing against well developed refined games - HL2 EP:2 is a good example because whilst it did nothing that the previous games didn't (except woodland maps) it was very refined and I liked it a lot. It helped that the Orange Box included a whole new gameplay mechanic, or Portal as it was marketed (again, great game). But I'd really like there to be something that helps me justify the expense of my gaming desktop with something new and really impressive. 3D, with appropriate investment and hardware, has the capability to change gaming in a way that graphics just doesn't. I want it to work so much...

 

It wasn't insulting don't get your knickers in a twist. I was talking about the general user base of gamers. Unfortunately you are in the extreme minority. When Nvidia launched Stereoscopic 3D there was plenty of combo-kits around, but now... not really.

More people care about modding than they do 3D gaming but I'm not going to deny it's also niche.

3D is a perceptual improvement. None of us in the office think a headache inducing 2D pop-up book style of 3D that is propitiatory to one company is an improvement, however, more performance allowing better fidelity, fluidity and realism of graphics, is.

 

To be fair Bindi I thought you was ever-so-slightly harsh as well. 3D BluRay, Sky3D and 3D gaming really interests me and if I get to use it in a shop before hand and like it I will snap it up.

Release me from that pigeon hole on top-trumpers!!

 

This is my issue - the first look novelty factor is what hooks people in, but everyone who has used 3D tech for any length of time that warrants the investment has come away disappointed, or, trying to justify the purchase. It's just not there yet and only having a proprietary solution as the "standard" is not beneficial to the consumer.

It's just something to sell you a new TV or a new box or a new TFT, or those same Blu-rays again, or pushing back game releases rather than focusing on the quality of the product instead.

 

@Bindibadgi

np's I realise it is niche....

I dont have the time to play games for a long period of time... you might ask why I'd be willing to drop 150 euro getting some specs but then again thats not a lot of money. Thats taking the wife out for a night on the town or the kids to a theme park... the first look novelty factor is fine for that sort of cash...

I suppose that's how we justify watercooling etc....

take a look at PureSilver's system... he's hardly going to see a step change improvement in fluidity etc... from upgrading further at present.

Regardless I completely accept your view that games should be reviewed on the basis of their 2d performance, people will often see a bigger improvement investing in some other areas of their system, that 3d is niche, that the technology isn't there yet and that it is being driven by electronics firms trying to get their yields up.

but I'm happy in my niche.

 

OK, yea I see your point in that respect. IE: what does the extra MHz from watercooling get you when the system sits at idle 90% of the day? I wouldn't be so against it if it weren't for the relentless marketing and pushing of respectively "cheap" products instead of just improving quality

 

the marketing push, proprietary solutions, renamings... all not very likable features of nvidia agreed.

 

3D bandwagon is not just Nvidia - it's all the TV players, movie studios etc. I just think that they can't make a better more engaging core experience, for less money, rather than sell you the same thing you bought before but now it has 3D.

 

I paid an Extra £1.50 to see Avatar in 3D.
It was an okay film, but I was robbed for that £1.50. I kept the polarised glasses though

 

I think they are offering this also - the increase in res, black levels, response times/refresh etc.. of lcd's and the collapse in their prices has been impressive...

the only thing is that the buying public dont actualy care enough to buy a new set... hd-tv is good enough (for most sd/dvd res seems good enough)

in sumary they have already improved the core experiance enough for most people....

same went for music with scad for instance - the public didnt care - actualy they cared to little weve regressed to mp3...

@badders

I felt robbed of the 30 mins i spent watching the end of the movie... first half was quite good though.

sorry for multipost

 

memeroot, please use the edit button, you're making the place look untidy keep multiposting!

 

yeah krikkit a stickler on that.. I tend to do that myself

I like how in semiaccurate he says nvidia engineers solve problems by yelling and not using science =] oh well might as well buy a 5850.. there was no way I'm buying this wreck- wait for the shrink and see what they have then

 

who owns a 3d tv or moniter on this site

1 person 10 at most id guess

3d is something for the future

stop been ati and nvidia fan boys.

best bang for buck is 5850 and has been for ages. 5870 90 is still overkill for 99% of people who own it.

Whatever fermi does its overkill to nearly 90% of the people who use this site. If its 40% faster

who games on a 24inch moniter and upwards. That will be another small figure. Didnt you do a reader review that said most people game below 1920×1080. To really get usage outta a 5870 or 90 you need to game at 2560 x 1600 ( which is affectively the max resolution of most screens) so for fermi you need what 2* 30inch moniters. Its just totaly unrealistic. This is a review site for the general population not the rich and shameless. I could never justify a second 30inch moniter for gaming. I dont know anyone who could.

Its like buying intel EE processors just cause you can for the benifit you will never see.

seen people with 16gb of ram on a games machine. Just whats the point? no game uses that sorta insanity. by the time it does your ram will be outta date and slow.

I dont side with either camp. Whoever makes the best performance card will usauly get my money. Must be single gpu ( double gpu is more crap, anyone who wants an explanation has never used one)

 

Gonna have to agree that 3D is a gimmick. There've been 3D movies in theaters for years and it's always been a gimmick, if people were truly interested in the technology surely all films would be in 3D by now? It has been and, in my opinion, always will be a novelty designed for some cheap fun to shake up the routine. Now that doesn't mean it's terrible and we should shun it, but I feel people should take a step a back and really understand that they are buying a novetly item, not a revolutionary new way to view things. Memeroot you seem to realize that, but a lot of people sadly don't.

 

in my mind, the current 3d tech is a stopgap until we see holographic (think star wars) displays - having to wear glasses will always limit this.