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Is your property worth more than a human life?

Discussion in 'Serious' started by Rum&Coke, 3 Aug 2009.

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Is killing an intruder justified if he attempted to non-violently steal your property

  1. Yes, a criminal gives up all right to life once he enters my house

    36 vote(s)
    32.7%
  2. No, life is too precious to waste satisfying a base need to dominate our self-described "property"

    12 vote(s)
    10.9%
  3. Criminals do have rights to life but adrenaline takes over

    9 vote(s)
    8.2%
  4. People have a right to protect their property but the action should be in proportion to the threat/c

    53 vote(s)
    48.2%
  1. stuartpb

    stuartpb Well-Known Member

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    Being insured doesn't stop you losing out. You would have the excess to pay, plus increased premiums. Then you have to wait for the claim to be sorted. Perhaps the biggest thing is that you have to deal with the feeling that your home is no longer secure, and you cannot protect it and those inside it.

    Been there the first time I got burgalled, and I swore I wouldn't be so forgiving if it happened again. The second time I got robbed, the house was empty again, and in a way I am glad it was because I would have beat the hell out of those who robbed the house, or got a good hinding myself while trying.

    Also, not every has or can afford insurance, and I should imagine that quite a few people have been robbed and ended up not being able to replace what was stolen.
     
  2. Prestidigitweeze

    Prestidigitweeze "Oblivion ha-ha" to you, too.

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    To go ruefully off-topic:

    Please tell me you like Thomas Vinterberg and Lars Von Trier. Like theirs, your sense of humor is made all the more hilarious by the vigorous and arbitrary formality with which you express it. There's nothing funnier than a character who pursues some grotesque impulse matter-of-factly, with the grim determination of a drill sargeant.
     
  3. Ransoman

    Ransoman New Member

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    When i was robbed (december last year) The only thing that was stolen was all my console games, xbox 360, psp, ds and laptop. Even a jar of 2p's . I highly doubt that it would have been a massive warrior man, more likely a couple of local kids. If i had caught them in the act they wouldn't have left the house in anything less than police custody. If i did catch a massive warrior man taking all my stuff i would phone the police first and then hide with the golf club and camera.
     
  4. Furymouse

    Furymouse Like connect 4 in dagger terms

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    Maybe two of those people trapped in a room together with various golf clubs and parking cones while the Benny Hill theme plays in the background. That may be funnier to watch at double speed.

    And on the topic at hand. I would more than likely cower in my bed. My dad, however, would not think twice about shooting someone who broke into his house. But that would also be his training kicking in, where any intruder is a threat.

    I personally don't think there is such a thing as a person robbing/burglaring you and not being a threat. And as others have said in a situation like that ( burglar in the night ) there really is no way of knowing absolutely without a doubt that they are not a threat.
     
  5. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    To answer the thread title: Depends what property. But if someones in my home, in my eyes they forfeit their right to life. Morally speaking I think they should die. But since the law in the United Kingdom is so god damn backwards, I'd probably either just wait until they'd taken whatever they felt like from my house and left, or pick up something heavy and whack 'em on the head, try to knock 'em out.

    Morally speaking though, yeah, kill 'em for sure. Stealing my property is stealing my money, stealing my money is stealing my time, and stealing my time, is stealing a part of my life. If you try to do that to me, I have a right to return the favour.
     
  6. Koolpc

    Koolpc Member

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    Agreed. Smack the gits into oblivion i say.
     
  7. mvagusta

    mvagusta Did a skid that went for two weeks.

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    So you're saying that you'd take some of their life? How do you do that? Get them to wash your car? Mow your lawn? Force them to smoke a packet of cigarettes?
     
  8. supermonkey

    supermonkey Deal with it

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    A pound of flesh, perhaps? :p

    -monkey
     
    mvagusta likes this.
  9. Furymouse

    Furymouse Like connect 4 in dagger terms

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    Or he could get a picture of them, thus capturing their soul, and then use it in a demot for all of our pleasure. Thatll show 'em
     
  10. Arkanrais

    Arkanrais New Member

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    I would harm a burglar, but not (intentionally) kill them. depending on the situation though, I might hold them at knife point and wait till the police arrive or if they're threatening me they might end up with a few new bodily orifices.

    I have barreled down on a person I thought was an intruder before, while carrying a katana and sword. I was awoken by someone at the opposite end of my house when I was supposed to be the only one at home, so I got up, grabbed a couple of swords and headed in the direction of the intruder. I was ready to cause some serious damage if the intruder had a weapon on them. it turned out to be one of the people I lived with who had come home early from work.

    I don't have much blunt objects lying around that I would use as weapons against an intruder, so if I do catch one that puts up a fight, there's going to be blood. I do advocate violence against intruders even if they aren't armed, but only within reason (don't seriously injure them if they can't fight back, but a kick in the ribs is acceptable).
    to answer the original question, I would harm (but not kill) a burglar for stealing my stuff just on the principal that they've broken in to my house and are taking whats mine (even if it is that crappy blender sitting somewhere under my kitchen bench). What I'm willing to do gets worse though if I have my brothers or sisters kids staying over.
     
  11. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    No, I'm saying I have a right to take their life. They violate my home, they lose their freedoms (including right to life). Very simple.
     
  12. stuartpb

    stuartpb Well-Known Member

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    +1 - QFT!!

    If a man cant feel secure in his own home then where can he feel safe? It's about time our laws were changed to give the rights back to the victim. No-one forces anyone to decide to rob a house or indeed a person. If you don't want to risk getting hurt then don't decide to rob.

    I wouldn't wait to see if my or my family's personal safety was in danger before resorting to violence if someone broke in, as by that time it could be too late.
     
  13. kenco_uk

    kenco_uk I unsuccessfully then tried again

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    I'd be charged and overflowing with adrenalin, that's for sure. Nervous, bricking it, yup. But I'd go for it - perhaps a bowling pin to the side of the head, there's loads of stuff I can grab hold of, charge downstairs and brandish at a burgler. If he/she/they pissed off sharpish I'd call the police. If they hung around to try their chances, yep they'd get it as bad as I could give. If they ended up dead, so be it, their choice.
     
  14. supermonkey

    supermonkey Deal with it

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    That's an interesting scenario. In one case you say that you'd just hold the burglar at knife-point. In another scenario, you admit to having gone in, swords drawn ready for combat.

    I think it's interesting that in each of these scenarios - indeed, most of the scenarios here - the burglars are presumed to simply comply with the homeowners' demands. It's as if this thread is populated by almost superhuman homeowners whose mere presence is enough to make even the most hardened criminal cower in the corner, trembling at the thought of a knife wound.

    "I'll knock them unconscious."
    "I'll hold them at knife-point."
    "I'll shoot to incapacitate."
    "I'll (insert heroic defense here)."

    None of these scenarios accounts for the burglar. All of these situations assume a skinny, unarmed burglar with no defensive experience. What if he knocks you out? What if he's armed and shoots you first? What if he incapacitates you? What if he has a buddy, and it's suddenly 2-on-1?

    To be honest, the testosterone is so deep here I could almost swim in it.

    -monkey
     
  15. stuartpb

    stuartpb Well-Known Member

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    So do you suggest roll over and play dead? Thats a sure fire way to become a target. I would rather have a go than to give in to the fear. As I said, if you cant feel safe in your own house, where can you feel safe?

    To just give in to scum and let them do what they want is the reason our country has half the troubles it does. We hear about people who are too scared to get involved in incidents on the streets, we face people being scared to give evidence against criminals and now we should just let burglars walk away with our property. Well for me, I say not in my lifetime!
     
  16. Arkanrais

    Arkanrais New Member

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    Weapons usually work as a preventative, as people are likely to take you more seriously if you've got a large stick pointed in their general direction. Even if they are bigger than me or there are more of them than me, I'd still be having a go at them unless I'm grossly outnumbered (4-1 or more). For me, heroism doesn't mean a thing, I just don't like scum taking my stuff.
    I know that if I do stab a ******* that's in my home, I'm going to be charged with assault and probably injury with intent to cause grievous bodily harm, then get dragged though court proceedings (and get a criminal record), so if possible I'd rather they surrender. If I do see a weapon on them, then I won't hesitate to strike. If I knew I wouldn't get dragged through the court system for attacking someone stealing my ****, then I'd go strait to the beating, even if they are unarmed.

    As I live in New Zealand, people generally don't have guns unless they're in a gang (who don't bother average joe's with breaking in to their house), or farmers. My house is pretty small as well, so by the time it takes to get a shot off, its easy to close any distance between me and the intruder (though that's not going to be very useful if they hit with a .303 or manage a decent shot with a smaller caliber rifle).

    If I get incapacitated, then I'm **** out of luck, though with the noise made, someone will have called the cops. I try not to be unrealistic about these things and usually know what I'm getting into (ie the consequences of what could go wrong) if I think something has gone down (like one 3am when a brothers friend climbed through a window and crashed in the lounge, again I grabbed a sword and got ready for a confrontation expecting a couple of intruders).

    edit: I wouldn't expect the intruders to comply with my demands, but it's always easier to ask first before the **** hits the fan. from my experience, it's not so much hardened criminals that do home invasions and those who do break in usually make a run for it if you do confront them in the act (it's easier to run the hell away asap than to stick around and get caught by the cops). You rarely get home invasions where the intruder will stick around or get combative, or at least that's how it is where I live.
     
    Last edited: 7 Aug 2009
  17. Combinho

    Combinho Ten kinds of awesome

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    To be honest, I would not make the first move. I mean, odds are I'd lose a fight. If a burglar attacked me, of course I would defend myself. However, if you attack, you force a confrontation, and it is you that has escalated the situation, and by doing so, you put yourself at risk. Your average burglar is not looking for a confrontation, they are looking for stuff to nick. They will see you and most probably run away. They are not all stupid, and I doubt many are psychopaths.

    As for the people saying that a burglar gives up their right to life when they enter your home, how is that a rational or proportionate response in any way. Gandhi said 'An eye for an eye leaves everybody blind,' so what happens with this sort of response. It saddens me to see such attitudes amongst an apparently intelligent group of people.
     
  18. Horizon

    Horizon Dremel Worthy

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    Safety concercns aside. I didn't have to read past the first option. For me it's not what they are stealing it is the principle "that they are stealing from me", and that make me want to hurt the thief. I'm not a violent person by the way.
     
  19. stuartpb

    stuartpb Well-Known Member

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    It saddens me to hear that there are so many people that would be afraid to stand up for what is right and to protect their home. Maybe if a few more people stood up for themselves, we wouldn't be experiencing the problems we are today. That's my opinion anyways.
     
  20. Combinho

    Combinho Ten kinds of awesome

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    I stand up for what is right. I stand up for not killing people for breaking into homes. Beating people up who would otherwise run is not protecting your home, it's needless violence. Maybe if more people valued life more highly, and didn't use violence as a first resort, we wouldn't have the problems we do today.
     

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