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Marketplace sold item problem

Discussion in 'Serious' started by phinix, 3 Nov 2014.

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  1. dynamis_dk

    dynamis_dk Grr... Grumpy!!

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    Do you have anything clear enough to see the value on the component so it could just be replaced?
     
  2. Yadda

    Yadda Minimodder

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    Looking at a high-res image of that model board on the internet and it does appear that there should be a component in that spot.

    My first thought, like Gareth, is that being so close to the screw hole, it could easily have been biffed by a screwdriver tip. It's very easily done and I did it myself once or twice - out of thousands of builds, I should add before people think I'm a complete Biff :) - when working on the bench, building and fixing computers many years ago.

    My guess: Colonel Mustard, diary room, lead piping.
     
    Last edited: 11 Nov 2014
  3. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    A camera that could see the value printed on a component that isn't there any more would be a sight to behold... ;)

    Those small SMT parts rarely have their values printed on, sadly; there's simply not enough room.

    EDIT: Excuse for a macro shot! Here's an Intel board I've got lying around: see how the majority of the SMT components are unmarked. If you have access to schematics or BoM, you can look up the part number silk-screened on the board; if not, you're left to measure the part with a multimeter - and if the part is missing, that'd need a board where it *isn't* missing.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. bawjaws

    bawjaws Multimodder

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    Agree with Yadda - when I saw that it was right next to the motherboard mounting hole, I suspected a slip of the screwdriver may have been the cause. I've done similar and scratched the PCB before (without catastrophic results, fortunately).
     
  5. Margo Baggins

    Margo Baggins I'm good at Soldering Super Moderator

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    Those pads look like there use to be a little SMT dude there that now isn't there - I don't think you should bridge it to test, as I think it might of been (looking at it) a resistor previously, and if you bridge it it might make whats on the other end of that trace sad. Looks like tiny 0402 (imperial) sized, which I can solder but it makes me want to cry. But I can fix that spot at least, if you want.

    It would be hard to work out what it was without a board with it there still - but, failling that can just measure everything else in that area, and if they all measure the same then it's almost safe to assume it will be the same value.
     
  6. modd1uk

    modd1uk Multimodder

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    Had this about 11-12 years ago when installing one of the old CPU coolers with no levers, you know the old "put a flat screwdriver in and lever it on " type. I slipped and took a similar component off and resulted in the board being goosed.

    Well done to Sherlock and his team of helpers, looks like this is the issue. Somebody has slipped with a screwdriver when screwing a screw into the motherboard stand off by the looks of things.

    Edit - Could of also been when removing the screw, either way that's the only thing that goes anywhere near that little component.
     
  7. phinix

    phinix RIP Waynio...

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    OK, found it, it's on my phone!
    Well, whatever it is, it's there. You can see it very clearly under the P letter.
    Don't have cable with me, will transfer it when get back home from work around 8pm.

    If I ever visit Oxford, Shuttlemodder and his friend with magnifying glass will get a huge beer from me. Or we just go to the pub and get hammered..;)
     
  8. dynamis_dk

    dynamis_dk Grr... Grumpy!!

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    Fair enough Gareth, not way of knowing what that specific part was even if u could see writing on it. Am sure some of the SMD resistors I got have values in but maybe those are just the bigger ones.

    Good that we've (not that I've had any involvement lol) manage to get to the bottom of it in the end :)
     
  9. Mojo

    Mojo Multimodder

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    Nothing like... my eye sight just isn't good enough and we dont tend to have microscopes for checking this sort of stuff out.. We're just IT Support!

    Agreed i am almost certain that this is the cause of the issue and having found the same high res pic..
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Mojo

    Mojo Multimodder

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    If that picture is before the item is sent out.. i would suspect that the damage has come as a result of installation. Highly unlikely that would happen in generic transport.
    :sigh:
     
  11. oscy

    oscy Modder

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    Perhaps, but it depends when the picture was taken. I'm not sure what kind of picture can prove it was taken right before being wrapped up and posted rather than before testing. While I could've done it installing (though I don't believe I slipped with a screwdriver), it just as much could've been done while testing or afterwards, or perhaps if it was scraped when being moved. Such a small thing might not be noticed popping off.
     
  12. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Balance of probabilities: if Phinix has a picture that shows the component still on there after he'd taken it out of whatever case it was in and prepared it for sale (the reason for taking the picture in the first place, after all) then it's highly unlikely that it was damaged between the picture being taken and the board being posted. They're not that fragile - you won't ping one off the board just handling it. It's almost impossible that it was damaged in transit, given that something sharp and precise enough to poke a single SMT resistor off the board with no other sign of damage would have left a very visible hole in the packaging, and anything bigger and heavier would have crushed the packaging and caused significantly more damage. So, on the balance of probability we have to agree that the resistor snapped off the board after delivery.

    Now, it's possible that the resistor was not snapped off by you during installation, especially if you don't remember slipping with a screwdriver. It could have happened at any time during the subsequent testing - especially as you've discovered one of your RAM sticks is also faulty, which may have accounted for the board's original failure to boot. However, on the balance of probability it seems unlikely that the board had a fault that Phinix didn't know about that was separate to the damaged resistor.

    Thus, I would draw the following conclusions: the missing resistor is responsible for the failure of the board; the resistor went missing some time after the board was delivered, either during your initial installation and removal or during subsequent testing; therefore on the balance of probability the failure is unlikely to be Phinix's fault. When Phinix sold the board, it was working; he packaged it up, still working; it was not damaged during transit. If we agree to those three things, then Phinix is in the clear: he sold a working board and ensured it was delivered safely, thus he does not owe a refund.

    If there is any further uncertainty, a quick gander at the EXIF information on his photograph showing the resistor in-place should prove he didn't (for some strange reason) take a photo of the board long before it was put up for sale. Yes, the EXIF timestamps can be faked, but given the above it seems unlikely.

    I know this isn't what you'll want to hear, and it's merely my conclusion as a disinterested third-party - feel free to ignore it if you wish. But from what I've read in this thread, Phinix is cleared of liability.
     
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  13. modd1uk

    modd1uk Multimodder

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    [​IMG]

    Nail - Head ^.
     
  14. Mojo

    Mojo Multimodder

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    Afraid i would have to agree with Gareth pending the picture from Phinix i would say it was safe to assume that this happened whilst in the hands of Oscy quite likely when testing.
    I'm more than happy to have a play - i can test all the surrounding resistors and a trip to maplin tomorrow to get the right ones.

    But guess it all lies in the hands of Oscy and Phinix as to the fate of the board.

    Equally i am happy to dispose of it through our recycling scheme at work.
     
  15. Margo Baggins

    Margo Baggins I'm good at Soldering Super Moderator

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    I'm almost certain maplins won't have one. Or my Maplins in Brighton is rubbish :D They quite literally, never, ever, ever, have any passives I want in there. Their electronics offerings are about as mickey mouse as their pc/computer offerings.
     
  16. Comrade Woody

    Comrade Woody Obsolete

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    I'm in agreement with Gareth too, if Phinix's photo shows the board undamaged prior to dispatch it seems highly unlikely that the damage occurred while he had the board, and it clearly didn't happen during transit.

    If the resistor can be replaced then perhaps there's yet hope for the board; it'd certainly be a nice ending to this if it can be repaired.

    Everyone who volunteered their time to troubleshoot this deserves a big thank you. It's things like this that demonstrate the strength of the community, and make me glad to be a part of it.
     
  17. Harlequin

    Harlequin Modder

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    it does begger the question - would a phone call to gigabyte to ask them what the missing resistor is , and whats the OP soldering skills like?
     
  18. oscy

    oscy Modder

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    I don't have soldering equipment, and my soldering experience comes from school a decade ago just spreading the stuff on the lanes of a circuit board. The concept of people having such equipment in their own home was wacky to me until I learned more about computers and ****.
     
  19. Mojo

    Mojo Multimodder

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    We've lost nothing if I popped it to our electronics dept then??
     
  20. Umbra

    Umbra What's a Dremel?

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    You our Holmey...

    [​IMG]
     
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