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News Microsoft reissues Windows 8.1 Update 1 via WSUS

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Gareth Halfacree, 17 Apr 2014.

  1. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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  2. SchizoFrog

    SchizoFrog New Member

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    They can keep it. I just bought a new laptop for my parents that had Windows 8, so I went through the process of installing all the updates (as you can't install 8.1 until 8 is updated) and then installed 8.1. All seemed to be well and not a single problem... UNTIL... I tried to install Office at which point I was told that I had to be an administrator. The account was an admin as it was the only account, not only that but the UAC settings had been turned off (something I always do while setting up a computer). I tried every suggested answer I could find via Google and nothing seemed to make a difference. 4 hours later enough was enough and now Windows 7 Ultimate is happily running.
     
  3. Buzzons

    Buzzons Active Member

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    You turned off UAC? Did you right click the office installer -> run as admin?
     
  4. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    It's because you disabled UAC. No is admin in Windows 8.
    Disabling UAC won't make you true admin, it will drop you down to a lower account.
    UAC is part of Windows security system, and can't be disabled.

    To me it seams that you did not give Windows 8 a chance, and you already wanted to put Windows 7 in the first place, and you were just trying to find an excuse. So, now your parents are stuck with WIn7 due to your close mind set. This is exactly the same behavior with people going "XP for life", because of UAC system. It is a system to provide a serious level of protection which so far has not been by-passed since it's introduction in Vista (good work Microsoft), and you decide that your parent should have none of that, and should run as true admin all the time.

    Switch to Linux based OS, and tell how everyone you like running as root.
     
  5. Alecto

    Alecto Member

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    Ah, choices, choices:

    Install the Update and risk your system becoming completely useless (as many users have reported)

    or

    forgo the update until M$ gets of their dumb lazy a$$ and fixes it and also waive any security updates

    And all this on the very day the new *ubuntu LTS is coming out? Should be interesting :)
     
  6. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    That's odd because i thought UAC had been hacked way back in 2007.
    http://news.techworld.com/security/8873/two-step-uac-hack-published/
    In fact Microsoft have said, Microsoft: UAC not a security feature.
    http://news.techworld.com/security/8031/microsoft-uac-not-a-security-feature/
     
  7. Cthippo

    Cthippo Can't mod my way out of a paper bag

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    If you can't get something minimally working in 4 hours, then there is a problem.
     
  8. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    If you use a registry cleaner at some point in time, you will probably have a problem.
    If not, it will most likely work just fine, especially if Windows is fully updated, and drivers are the latest.


    B.S. You need to grant it admin in the first place.
    Me too, I can run "hackLinux" executable, under root, and go "Oh! Look! Linux is not secure at all!"

    Of course it isn't. It won't start detecting malware. UAC is not an anti-malware or anti-virus solution, much like Linux account model is not a security feature either.
     
    Last edited: 17 Apr 2014
  9. wolfticket

    wolfticket Downwind from the bloodhounds

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    To be fair, it sounds like it was the initial unnecessary (and arguably misguided) step of of turning off UAC control in Windows 8 that was the caused 4 hours worth of the problems and ultimately giving up.
    It is not something that is recommended or necessary to do.

    Anyway,

    I'm not surprised Microsoft are giving corporate users more breathing room. 30 days always seemed somewhat ambitious to me, with or without hitches.
    It wouldn't shock me if they extended the period to other users once they see adoption rates. It is a fairly big and potentially off putting download, depending on your connection speed.
     
    Last edited: 17 Apr 2014
  10. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    No you don't. http://news.techworld.com/security/8873/two-step-uac-hack-published/
    So unless you are classing piggy backing on a higher level process to gain elevated privileges, a means of attack used by the majority of naughty programs. If you class that as the user granting a program admin rights then your definition of granting admin rights is very different than mine.
    Sorry but didnt you not say "UAC is part of Windows security system, and can't be disabled." Ohh wait yea, you did right here.
     
    Last edited: 17 Apr 2014
  11. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    The moral of the story is: if you are going to be all l33t h4xx0rz ninja and disable standard OS features, know what you are actually doing.
     
  12. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    Ok Corky you are being an idiot.
    If you are going to download a PacMan clone which requires Admin to run, for some reason, and ALLOW it, and it decides to execute another program PART OF IT, which infects your computer. The ENTIRE package: PacMan clone, is a malware.

    You know this perfectly, but you decide to ignore it, just to bash on something to be "hip" and "cool".

    Yea. Its not a security feature, but it is a security system.
    Your point being?
     
  13. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    Seriously is there a need to insult people :nono:
    At no point has the user granted admin rights to run the program, all they have done is click yes to the normal UAC prompt that pops up when ever you run almost any program. The program then could create an "executable stub" pointing to a target program that runs at a higher level.

    And if you want further proof that your original statement of "UAC is part of Windows security system, and can't be disabled." is incorrect allow me to enlighten you. http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9218916/Malware_turns_off_Windows_UAC_warns_Microsoft

    Malware turns off Windows' UAC, warns Microsoft.
    Or how about tricking the user into running a program they believe they can trust, like the command prompt.
    http://codeempire.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/hacking-social-engineering-using-uac.html
    So not only do you have to result to insults, you also want to quibble about semantics.
    Pathetic.
     
  14. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    Application don't show UAC prompt. I don't know where you get that most application do. Do you have any proof of this? I'll take a recording on your computer as good enough, because I know this is 100% false.

    Granting the application elevation right, by allowing the application at the UAC prompt, means that you give is Admin rights.


    Already compromised system. NEXT!

    Not my problem. Use common sense. Download and run thing from trusted site.
    If you want to run image.jpg.exe, that is not my problem, nor Windows.
    The same way, as if a person does not know how to use Linux, and follow false post or article on the internet that says to format the computer or install a malware software, for something else. Windows and Linux and any OS, can just do so much against protecting the user unintended action. Windows RT is an example of how to fix that. But you see, it doesn't do to well with people. calling it enclosed environment. Well... what do you want.

    If you don't know what you are doing, seek advice, else learn from your mistakes.

    Where did I insult you?
     
  15. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    Wait, what?!? :hehe:

    UAC pops up only when a program wants to make changes to your computer. It says so in the little window. That is not a normal scenario; that is a please-sit-up-and-take-notice scenario. Do you wish to let it, user? You clicked yes? Ow, big mistake!

    There is no known failsafe against PEBCAK.
     
  16. SchizoFrog

    SchizoFrog New Member

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    OK, let me clarify...

    In Windows 7 when I go to install programs I get the UAC pop up asking if I am sure. I turn it down to the bottom setting to stop those pop ups while installing the very same programs I always install from my own saved installations when I do a clean install.
    With Office in 7, I mount my disc image, run and install no problems. However, when I came to Windows 8 and installed the same software I got the window pop up so I once again turned it down to the bottom setting and carried on as normal, only this time when I mounted the disc image and ran it I was told I had to be an Admin, and so the 4 hour session began during which I also tried resetting UAC back to it's default setting and still to no avail. I could not, no matter what I did get Office to install.
    So back to 7 I went, turned UAC down once again, installed all my software no problems and then turn UAC back up to default. So in spite of all the comments above hinting that I did something in error, I do not believe so.
     
  17. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    If it's 100% false please explain this.
    [​IMG]
    Or this.
    [​IMG]
    Or how about one of Microsoft's own programs prompting the user ?
    [​IMG]
    So you would suggest every developer, indie game publisher, everyone who makes freeware, open source projects, and all not for profit company's pay Microsoft upward of £100 per year.
    Where do you suggest they get the money to pay for Authenticode Certificates ? just so the user doesn't get a UAC prompt, that may i point out you denied happened in your previous sentence.
    One moment you are saying "Application don't show UAC prompt." then in your next breath you say "allowing the application at the UAC prompt" Either the application is or it isn't prompting the user, please make your mind up.
    Well that doesn't negate the fact that you claimed..
    "UAC is part of Windows security system, and can't be disabled."
    The link i provided clearly states, Malware turns off Windows' UAC, warns Microsoft.

    What you mean like trusted sources such as Microsoft them selves, or Mozilla, and countless other developers who have to pay for Authenticode certification, and then have to sit twiddling their thumbs until one is issued.
    Right here...
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/idiot
    If you can't get your point across without throwing insults and being offensive, maybe you need to learn some manners or possibly think twice before posting next time.
    So you suggest that no one ever make changes to their computer, never installs software, never runs notepad, should they just sit there and look at it ?
     
  18. ffjason

    ffjason New Member

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    I'm sorry but your 4 hours of "not working" came from you changing a setting to a non-recommended level.

    So you are the one preventing Windows 8 from working.... congratulations.
     
  19. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    Those are not applications; they are programs that aim to make changes to your computer. See the difference?

    Now who is arguing semantics! Applications that perform a function (like Word, like games, like PhotoShop) do not invoke UAC because they don't make changes to the OS. Programs that do make such changes invoke UAC.

    And indie programs can still run without Authenticode; users just have to make the conscious decision to let them --and accept the risks involved. It's the price you pay for an open OS. If they don't feel confident enough to do that, they better stick inside the walled garden.

    Only if you allow it UAC in the first place.

    Not at all. Their programs can still run --user just has to click "Allow" on UAC --and accept the risk.

    Sure they can. They just should know what they're doing and accept the risk that they might not.

    In my life I have blown up one C64, screwed up my OS several times, fried one CPU, electrocuted myself three times, had my PC infected once. Miraculously I have not yet drowned it in coolant. But you know, I'm a modder. I'm careful and I accept the risk.

    Be careful. Be very, very careful. This ride is not for the weak.

    --the Game Cat, in Vurt by Jeff Noon
     
    Last edited: 18 Apr 2014
  20. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Application: a program or piece of software designed to fulfil a particular purpose. Program: a series of coded software instructions to control the operation of a computer or other machine. A program designed to install some software, as in the above UAC dialogue, is an application - a program or piece of software designed to fulfil a particular purpose, to whit the installation of more software.

    Now, as it happens, I agree that UAC shouldn't trigger unless an application - word chosen carefully there - actually attempts to make changes to the system that require administrative privileges; that doesn't make applications that do suddenly not be applications any more, though.

    See also: "security feature" versus "security system." A security system built into Windows is a security feature of Windows; attempts to draw a line between the two phrases is disingenuous.
     

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