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News Microsoft's Surface hits trouble

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Gareth Halfacree, 16 Nov 2012.

  1. PCBuilderSven

    PCBuilderSven New Member

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    Yes, consumer level products. The laptop I'm writing this from is ~2 years old (used ~4hours daily), with no problems at all. I also still have a ~10 year old laptop that was used daily, it's not powerful enough for my requirements any more, but still works without a hitch.

    Can it get to the ~350MB of Debian? Surely Drivers and Restore Points/Backups can take up that much space? In my experience, Debian includes most of the drivers I need anyway, so that isn't a problem.
     
  2. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    10 years ago, HP was doing solid systems
    2 years is lucky. When I was working at retail for a summer job a few years ago... I can tell you, we had SOOOOOOOO MANY HP computer for repair. HP and Acer none stop. It was interesting because at meet with a person that worked at another big retail chain some time ago, and he had the same thing. Acer and HP, every day, and had piles of them. Retail store loves to sale these systems, as they bring money with all the repairs.

    4h a day isn't much. I use my laptop from 7-8 hours a day 5 days a week, for the past 4 years, and sometimes I even greatly OC my GPU.


    Linux distribution for home computer doesn't support the billion of hardware out there. And It still missing drivers after install on old systems, you need to connect online to get them, or another PC if you need network drivers.

    I won't comment further I already made my point above and explained. Open Features panel looks what Windows has built-in (even uninstalled, the setup it still there, and for most they are not a few MB, but rather large things), and have look at the services panel to get some ideas of all the other feature that you personally don't use, but is needed and useful for others, which Linux doesn't have built-in.
     
  3. wafflesomd

    wafflesomd New Member

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    Can't say I agree. I would except maybe %20-25 tops of that space taken up by the OS, but not half.

    And on your HP comment, dear god I hate that brand. I used to work in pc repair and sales and tried to steer people away from HP and at least go with the Toshiba's that we had in stock. Some of the HP laptops we had would actually brick on Windows update. They sent our store some i7 laptops and they all came back because as soon as the customer updated it, it was bricked. I don't mean a fresh windows install would fix them, I mean they were hardcore bricked and wouldn't boot past the HP splash screen.
     
  4. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    But it's not just the OS. It's the OS plus a full Office suite. And if you're unhappy, all you have to do is return the unit for a refund. You don't have to sue --that's just being an asshole.
     
  5. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    I should should sue every monitor manufacture, because the 6-bit panel, can't really display 16.7 million colors. It uses frame rate control system to emulator the missing color.

    I should also sue about every mainstream targeting headphone and speaker manufacture as it can't produce all the frequencies mentioned properly.

    I should also sue chalk manufacture, as when you write on the board, you have a large amount of chalk not going on the board, but goes down on the floor. Look at all the mess it does!!! There is no warning on this on the box.

    Oh an permanent markers, because they aren't really permanent.



    If Microsoft said 32GB of storage, and they actually put a 16GB chip only. NOOOOOWWW we are talking. But that is not the case.
     
  6. impar

    impar Well-Known Member

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    Greetings!
    More space taken once updates start coming.
     
  7. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    Windows RT consumes only 12GB WITH Office. You see numerous report of this. 16GB is what Microsoft says, probably to cover future updates.
     
  8. impar

    impar Well-Known Member

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    Greetings!
    Also Restore and Hybernation?
     
  9. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    That is what people are reporting. I don't have a Surface RT to verify for sure.
     
  10. lp rob1

    lp rob1 New Member

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    I think you will have to explain this, because the last time I checked properly designed GUIs use the same elements just repeated, like buttons or text areas etc. which means you actually only store one copy of each control. Therefore a GUI really shouldn't take that much disk space. As for the 30GB thing - I was actually talking about a clean Windows 7 with updates, because a fresh Windows 7 installation without updates is practically asking for a compromised system.
    .NET is part of the disk space problem - if it were designed properly, each version would build on the last and add new functions where necessary, rather than being complete overhauls. This stands true for a rather large core of Windows - multiple libraries, with the same name but a different version to support applications compiled with those different versions. A properly designed library would continue to support those applications as the functions that the application uses are still there - just there are new ones to complement the old ones. And besides, why should a code library with some GUI elements take up several GB? Again, bloat.

    If you are installing Linux applications 'from the net' (I take this to mean from download pages using a web browser) then I am afraid you are doing it wrong. In this day and age Linux is sufficiently developed to actually have package managers (which Windows still lacks...) that take care of all dependencies for you. In the rare occasion that you require a program that is not available from a repository, then it is very likely that the said application was last modified in 2002, and there are newer alternatives.
    As for the keeping of old executables and libraries - this is completely fine. Executables and libraries do not use up that much disk space, so you can keep..... oh wait. Forgot, this is Windows - .NET and all that. Never mind.



    And this is the unfortunate reason why we have so much confusion. HDD manufacturers rightly use base 10, RAM manufacturers wrongly use base 10, and Windows just wrongly uses base 10 for everything.
     
  11. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    For every icons in a program and the executable itself you have 16x16, 24x24, 32x32, 48x48, 64x64, 72x72, 80x80, 96x96, 128x128 and 256x256. Let's not forget all the colors too! 24-bit with alpha, 24-bit, 256 colors and 16 colors! (ok well 256 and 16 colors aren't used anymore, but Windows still have legacy stuff which has been updated so it has both). This is needed to support all icon states, defined size and DPI settings. This is already several MB.. for 1 icon. Last I check programs have more than 1 icon they use inside it's UI. Plus you have apps using it's own pictures.

    We cannot measure this.
    1- Every update keeps a backup of the old one
    2- Service Pack takes space
    You can clear this, if you know you'll never uninstall an update and assured that your system is perfect.

    Web browser would be far more efficient if it followed HTML at 100%. But Sadly, last it was tried, very few websites worked. Even Opera has finally given up, as it's market share never grew because of this (well other reasons as well, but this is one of them). I am no expert in .NET and same for you, but I assume this is the case. Poorly made programs that you don't want to break compatibility. I and you might be wrong for all I know. Better ask a Microsoft engineer on .NET


    Why is it wrong? I though Linux was open. Why should I use an app store?


    A properly made package from the developer, would not cause any problems. But sadly, it's not always the case. I already encounter software that looks like it's using a few .NET API calls, and requires the user to install the ENTIRE package. And the program is picky about the version.


    It's all wrong! Let's make a new standard: lp rob1 units.
     
  12. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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  13. MickyTek

    MickyTek New Member

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    Microsoft are penny pinching and if any poor sole has had the miss fortune to even try Windows 8 then they would know too, the operating system is usless just as Vista was.
    I give windows 8 6 months at the most before Microsoft try and bury it again just like they did with Vista,.
    I gave up on Microsoft a long time agao and will never forgive them for dumping Vista on the public.
    OK windows 7 saved them but they have just made all the same mistakes again and learnt nothing from the past.
    I am sick of living in a world where the copr company takes it out on the customer so that they can make an extra buck.
    What ever happened to customer care, putting the customer first, this is why Apple win because the Custiomer comes first and what the customer needs come first before the [pocket of the Corparate company.
    The nails are scratching at Microsofts Coffin, its only a matter of time, Microsoft have to go back to the old days when they put the Clients wants and needs first, only then will they save themselves from complete ruin.
     
  14. Mikee

    Mikee New Member

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    I've had my Surface for a few weeks now and not had any problems with it. In my experience the build quality is of a very high standard.

    Am I right in thinking that Windows RT is just Windows 8 but compiled to run on an ARM processor with a few tweaks? If this is the case then I have no problem with it taking up a larger chunk of space and it not being stripped down to offer less functionality to increase space on offer.

    On my Windows 8 desktop the Windows folder is 14.9 gigs and on my Surface it is 6.57 gigs.
     
  15. RichCreedy

    RichCreedy Hey What Who

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    don't know if anyone mentioned yet, but I don't think the lawyer has read the t&c's as by using the surface he has agreed to not take part in any class action suit.

    and why didn't he do the same with apple ipad/iphone
     
  16. Guinevere

    Guinevere Mega Mom

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    You're looking at a marketing issue from a technical perspective. We all know that a default OS install takes up a lot of room, and even if we're a bit surprised it's as much as 'up to' 16GB, we all expected it.

    But not everyone makes that connection. Microsoft are advertising a 32GB device that only has 16GB available for use. That's misleading marketing that is. Yes it's got 32GB of flash but that doesn't change that it's misleading to only talk about the total capacity rather than the usable capacity.

    You wouldn't sell a house as being 2000 square feet and then expect people to accept it when they see it's half that when you take into account the walls. There is an expectation that the liveable volume is used once you take away the 'non heatable areas' such as walls.

    "Microsoft Surface 32GB (Default of 16GB for user data)" etc.
     
  17. rollo

    rollo Well-Known Member

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    Think this has gone way outta control, In the end of the day its been a sales failure thats all that matters.

    The listed reasons in the thread just seem like PR babble trying to defend a device that is not selling. The zune had similar issues on release if i remember correctly.

    Nexus 7 has bigger faults it never got a front page post about them ( Screens falling apart due to poor quality control is alot bigger than a lack of some hard disk space that 99% of fokes will never notice)

    In the end of the day if the surface had sold 1million units or even 500k microsoft would be out there telling us we have sold this many units just as they do with windows 8 and every windows before it.

    Microsoft likes to build its windows hype machine. The fact that has not happened means Surface sales are really really poor. Even on this tech website from the main foke that post i only know 3-4 people who have one. Compare that to a nexus 7 or Ipad where every other person seems to have one.

    Nexus 7 and Kindle fire are doing well in the low end market, Whilst the Ipad takes the profit end of the market, To compete with either requires a quality product and content to go with it. Microsofts main content is music, most Films on there store and tv shows do not get a quick release if at all.

    The surface has sold poor for 2 reasons and 2 reasons only

    Price - Dont care that it comes with office it costs alot of cash to buy and for most consumers in the current market its not a device they can afford to buy without thinking if they do need it. ( 99% of people do not need a tablet, Apple has sold a content device not a tablet whatever they may call it. )

    A shop to sell it in - This is the biggest flaw there is 1 microsoft store in the uk its in london i am not driving 600 miles round trip just to test the surface it would cost me more in fuel than it would to just order one and send it back if i dont like it. If it was below £200 in cost most would take a chance the fact its closer to £500 with keyboard means its a huge risk for most consumers.

    The general consumer is a hands on type of people thats the main reason comet is going bankrupt everyone goes in and tests the tvs then buys online, I dont know anyone who has said im buying a microsoft surface or even thinking about it. Very few will consider it till its in more pc shops in the uk market and the USA market for that matter.
     
  18. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    Let's look at a random laptop advert:

    http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5086328.htm#pdpFullProductInformation

    What is the advertised HDD space? How much of that is left after the bundled OS and Office install? It doesn't say. Misleading?
     
  19. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    Possibly because they have been on the market a bit longer than the Surface, and in case of the Nexus 7 it's so cheap it can be almost an impulse buy.

    Hello, I am Nexxo, and I am going to buy a Microsoft Surface.
     
  20. S1KO85

    S1KO85 New Member

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    I picked one up when I was in the states and I have to say I am very pleased with it.

    Sure there are some flaws, and the OS isn't the most intuitive, but the features it has are excellent. (SD card, USB and windows integration are my favourite). Having to install from the microsoft store and being forced to use Bing and MS explorer is a bit annoying, especially when it seems like these are conscious decisions to limit the product. (Please let me have Chrome!)

    I think most of the disappointment online is from the fact that it isn't quite as good as it could have been.

    Still glad I got it over the Ipad.
     

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