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News Molyneux and Harrison say controllers too complex

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by CardJoe, 27 Feb 2008.

  1. CardJoe

    CardJoe Freelance Journalist

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  2. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

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    Best console controller = PS1/2 Dualshock, then I'd say the SNES controllers, then probably Wiimotes+'chucks. I don't think the 360 pads have too many buttons, many, more complex games are lacking enough buttons. Just because he doesn't like making games with complex control systems doesn't mean there's something wrong with everyone else...

    In fact, I'd be less inclined to play a game with simple controls, if only because it's more engaging to have to use a bajillion buttons.
     
  3. steveo_mcg

    steveo_mcg New Member

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    Then how come no one plays flight sims any more.
     
  4. CardJoe

    CardJoe Freelance Journalist

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    I think the 360 is the best controller I've seen personally. Simple. Grippable. Plenty of buttons. Only thing I'd change is the bumpers. I always forget about them.
     
  5. badders

    badders Neuken in de Keuken

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    In actual fact, I think I prefer a few buttons for separate things. Not "Gajillions", just a few.

    GOW for the PC with the space bar doing EVERYTHING really bugs me, for instance.

    It would really limit the experience, just having movement buttons/stick and one button that does everything, depending on what's going on.
     
  6. Cobalt

    Cobalt New Member

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    Dual shock was obviously designed for smaller hands than mine. The shoulder buttons are awkward to use and the entire shape is completely different to that which fits naturally into the human hand. The 360 controller is my favourite because it sits nicely in the hands and all the buttons are easily accessible.
     
  7. Saivert

    Saivert New Member

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    Flight Sims are just that, flight sims. It's not games in that respect. You have to actually learn how to fly a plane the proper way or you break the simulation (just like you would crash and die in real life). So that was a bad example really.

    As for simple controls I agree. Too many games require too many button presses to do simple tasks. You can reuse buttons for multiple tasks too you know. Don't have to have this button does that thing through the entire game. Just look at softbuttons on mobile phones. Context sensitivity is a secret artform.

    As for PC games it's a bit different as you also have a large keyboard with at least 102 keys, so you have more freedom. FPS games have simple controls (WASD = movement, E/F = use, Ctrl = crouch and numberkeys for weapons). Even though they are many they don't interfere with the gameplay.

    And Gears of war was just perfect with the controls. Spacebar doing what it was supposed to in that given situation worked for me. Not like you are going to jump up and down when you are pushing up against a wall.
     
  8. p3n

    p3n New Member

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    Its frustrating trying to manipulate the D-Pad on a 360 when using the sticks to move (ala Assassins creed), I wouldn't see any harm in controllers having more buttons or indeed some sort of module system (I think someone did a similar thing for an accessible 360 controller) so you could have another set of buttons (like ABXY) instead of a dpad for some games.
     
  9. Bauul

    Bauul Sir Bongaminge

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    Sega Megadrive F T W !!!
     
  10. [USRF]Obiwan

    [USRF]Obiwan New Member

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    Best allround controller ever: Mouse + keyboard
     
  11. teamtd11

    teamtd11 *Custom User Title*

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    The best controller ever was the n64 controller :rock:
     
  12. DXR_13KE

    DXR_13KE BananaModder

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    the dreamcast controller was very interesting, the visual memory card and all... the design was meh..... it was a console beyond its time.

    for me the most comfortable "standard" controller i had in my hands was the 360 controller, the most comfortable "non standard" one was the N64, it was amazing and very well designed.
     
  13. hawky84

    hawky84 SilentModder

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    Logitech G25 wheel, a specific controller for a certain role that does its part perfectly. Great build quality, look and feel, works well and if you have the right desk for your size ergonomic too.

    Just saying keyboard and mouse are the best is very open, there are so many different variety's of the two which are meant for very different circumstances.
     
  14. Xir

    Xir Well-Known Member

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    I feel that consollero's tend to use button combinations...lots of them.
    Leavin inexperienced users in the dust.
    Personally I#d prefer:

    A game that needs less buttons
    or if thats not possible
    A game with dedicated buttons (so many buttons, but no combo's)

    So usually, mouse an keyboard (and the occasional joystick and keyboard)
     
    Last edited: 27 Feb 2008
  15. Zurechial

    Zurechial Elitist

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    Anyone else getting sick of this pandering to 'casual gamers'?
    Sure more money coming into games industry seems like a great thing... until you realise that the industry no longer caters to the afficionados of gaming who actually care about depth and complexity in their gaming experience the way it used to, because they see that the money is in shallow, small, quick games that appeal to everyone in your family bar your dog, and maybe even your dog eventually.

    When developers and publishers jump from the deep-game ship, having seen the money in the opinionless mass-market, we end up with dross like Invisible War instead of Deus Ex, Oblivion instead of Planescape Torment, endless streams of games from The Sims series instead of....well..everything else on the bloody shelf - And just look how long it took for develoepers to see that there are those of us who still appreciate adventure games.

    Mr. Molyneux may think that single-button combat and frustrating multi-function gestures in games are great, innovative features but I'd prefer a game where I don't have to stop and think about every action I do in the game just because I don't have dedicated buttons to do said actions.

    Here's an analogy about it:
    Why do we have shift keys on our PC keyboards? Because 101 keys is a comfortable amount in terms of size, reach and complexity and we wouldn't want a key for each letter/symbol and a key for each capital of each letter, etc.
    This is a comfortable compromise, but if one were to follow Molyneux's design philosophy to an extreme logical conclusion, we'd have a keyboard with 2 keys: Shift and the 'Any' key, which could be any letter, symbol or function depending on what patterns you draw in the air or how you time your typing.

    A silly extreme, I know - But the concept is the same. Extra buttons are a boon for those of us who actually care about engaging physically with deep, involving games (or even just brainless shooters that rely on manual dexterity and efficient control) - Is our gaming experience to suffer further still for the sake of the brainless masses who Molyneux wants to 'get into gaming' ?

    To qualify my accusation of the mass-market being opinionless: I mean this in contrast to those of us who have been gaming for years, who know what we like, who appreciate the time and effort that goes into a game of high quality and who appreciate the time we can invest in said games for a return in involvement and satisfaction.
    I may be an opinionated elitist, but at least I have an opinion and I know what I like.
    Sadly, I'm obviously part of a dying breed who 'visionaries' like Mr. Molyneux don't care about, eh?
     
    Last edited: 27 Feb 2008
  16. banshee256

    banshee256 New Member

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    I hate that everything is becoming more and more simple. It's the mantra of the decade. "Make it simpler." No! Make it harder.

    Back in the days, every game out there was in English. So you had a choice: Learn English or stop playing. So, I learned English (I'm from Denmark, by the way). Result: From what I learned from playing computer games as a kid, I got the highest marks in my school in English. Also, back in the days, most games where not that easily accessible. You had to spend a fair amount of time getting to know the ins and outs of the game. How combat worked, how enemies reacted, what made the game crash, how puzzled could be solved, how to get your computer to run the game in the first place... Nowadays it's: Buy your localized version (no need to learn English), put in the DVD and press a button the install it, wait for it to install and automatically patch itself to the latest version, press another button and you're off.

    Some might say that all this is a good thing, but I don't. Entertainment developers should force people to learn something, before being able to play their games. The should force their buyers to think for themselves, instead of dumb down everything and make it simpler. Be it controls, interfaces, general gameplay...

    Give... Us... A... Challenge! God dammit!

    Rant over.
     
  17. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

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    Because the world is a distinctly messed-up place. I love flight sims, and every fibre of my being wants to see a revivial of them. It's a genre begging for reincarnation on the PC.

    The saving grace atm is the Ace Combat series on the playstation - I've had a load of them now, and every single one has been brilliant. :D

    I agree on everything but the install process, that should be as simple as possible - I hate overly complicated ones where you have to patch it and mess about. Game = complex, install = simple. :thumb:
     
  18. Tomm

    Tomm I also ride trials :¬)

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    Zurechial, that's a really good post IMO.

    I would totally agree. I have never considered that my xbox pad has too few buttons. If anything, a few more could be useful. But then I'm not part of the untapped masses that seem to be the focus of many companies at the moment.

    With the design most modern consoles though, it would be feasible to have two differently designed pads - the normal 'advanced' controller and a simple one for toddlers and idiots.
     
  19. Jordan Wise

    Jordan Wise Baby called to see the boss...

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    n64 controller wups everything, plenty of buttons, a decent joystick (not them fat blobs on dualshocks) and a fricking trigger, which felt far more like using a gun than anything else available, even that zalman thingy
     
  20. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

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    They were also unbelievably uncomfortable, and the joystick went dead far too quickly... They were good, but not as good as everyone would like to believe... :p
     
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