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Pondering about watercooling my next project, input needed.

Discussion in 'Watercooling' started by Jean R built, 12 Apr 2021.

  1. Jean R built

    Jean R built Modder

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    Hi all, I'm planning a new scratch build, it is going to be Da Module Thingy evolution, it will be smaller as I'm going from Micro Atx to mini ITX, It will be SFF within reason sub 20L but more than 9L.

    Right now Da Module Thingy is whisper quiet and the temps are good, but I'm considering using the corsair parts in the new case, that's why I'm asking here.

    I need your input, because right now I can't test it myself without spending to much money.

    Scouring the web about custom loops, I found complains about noisy pumps or fans probably because their setup is not efficient enough for their needs.

    When I had water cooling it was in the HD4870 era and it wasn't quiet, to the contrary it was ducking noisy.

    Can I get a whisper quiet built using a couple of 140 radiators?

    At least for now I will use my 3200G on the new MoBo so that is not hard to cool, for the GPU if possible I'll probably get a Mid range card as I'm fine playing at 1080p.

    Loop:

    Pump Reservoir > CPU > GPU > RAD > RAD >

    or

    Pump Reservoir > CPU > RAD > GPU > RAD >

    The 2 radiators configuration is needed for the case shape, it is not written in stone as I will adapt it to the hardware, and the rads are a big part of the volume, bigger than I expected honestly but it won't be a rectangular cuboid.

    Cheers
     
  2. Bloody_Pete

    Bloody_Pete Technophile

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    From all testing I've seen it doesn't actually make any difference as the water (with a decent pump) will be flowing round the loop so fast the water blocks and rads will only have a in/out temp difference of a few degrees, so you can basically plonk them where ever and it'll work more or less the same :)
     
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  3. Jean R built

    Jean R built Modder

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    Thanks Bloody_Pete, I was wondering if my reasoning was right, and you confirmed it.

    I will go with the second scheme for the loop order as it will be easier for me to route the tubes the best way.

    Now I want to know if anyone tested a setup with 2x140 mm radiators or a 280mm, and if it would cool enough with the fans and pump spinning at low speeds.

    I know that it's close to a 360 rad as exchange area for heat dissipation, but I never tested it.
     
  4. Bloody_Pete

    Bloody_Pete Technophile

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    What will you be cooling?
     
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  5. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun. Staff

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    Yeh depends what you're cooling. For CPU and GPU you're right on the limit with 140mm rad for each. A third if possible would make things easier.

    On the noise front, D5 pumps are allegedly quieter than DDC. However if you use a shoggy sandwich or other dampening materials then a DDC can be made nigh on silent too, and in a more compact space. Fans are also an important choice to reduce noise, but also how you control them. You should use a temp sensor in the loop and determine fan speed from the coolant temp, setting a curve so that the coolant doesn't get past 40C.
     
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  6. Jean R built

    Jean R built Modder

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    Thanks for the replies.

    As far as hardware right now it's a Ryzen 3200G, and the GPU a MSI R7 360.

    If the situation with prices for GPUs doesn't get better in the next months, I will probably be forced to just temporarily move those into the new case with the new Mobo.

    I was not able to upgrade the GPU for the CMWS20, you know why.

    But the build I'm aiming for would involve something like a 3060 maybe even a 3070 if possible and as for the CPU at 3600, 3600x level should suffice.

    You never know, if I get the chance to get something more powerful, I could swap the radiators for bigger ones, even if I gain some volume, but every 140 fan+radiator adds about 1,5 L more to the build.

    The pump is the Corsair XD5, I will mount it on a silent blocked frame to limit vibrations, for the fans I'm not sure, and I'm still searching for info about the noise mostly.

    I won the commander pro too, so I could use the Corsair fans ML140 Pro as I'm going to use their radiators.

    But I have been reading good things about various fans, like the Noctua industrials, not the 3000 one the 2000 as they seems more quiet and have good static pressure.

    Kind regards
     
  7. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun. Staff

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    Ah good, the XD5 has vibration dampening built into it already. i found that with the pump down around 2000rpm it was near silent.

    2x 140mm would be pushing it a bit with a 3060/3070 and 3600. On light to medium loads you might be ok, but extended heavy loads you'll likely have to crank the fans up a fair bit. Another possibility is external cooling, doesn't have to be a massive Watercool MO-RA3 either, an additional 280/360 would be enough. Maybe have a 280 or another couple of 140's external, but attached in some way, possibly hinged to swing out into position, maybe as part of a stand? Enjoy these laughable sketches of what I mean
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    EDIT:
    Alternatively (and likely much easier) would be a completely separate unit on QDCs.

    As for fans, yeh noctuas are good. If it's to be another metallic affair also consider the REDUX line, which come in a 2 tone grey.
     
    Last edited: 13 Apr 2021
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  8. Jean R built

    Jean R built Modder

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    Thanks for the input, the sketches do give the idea you are explaining so thanks for your time invested :thumb:

    You should not think about it as a traditional case, it wont be, I'm reasoning with project a bit like when I have to tune a bike or a car engine, I will adapt the frame to my needs.

    I won't post the sketches of it right now, I have different setups in mind, some more slender and long while others more thick and short.

    The thing is that after starting to draw some concepts I noticed that in a SFF the Radiators are huge :rollingeyes:, that's why I'm asking for opinions, I'm trying to gauge and limit the size of that part of the hardware.

    With air cooling it would be easy to craft a sub 10L case, but the loop is a lot less space efficient than I thought.

    After your sketches I started to think about making the radiator support more modular, so the frame is future proof and I have to option to mount bigger rads if need arises.

    So a couple of 140 is probably going to be noisier than air cooled, if a make a trio of 140 would it be enough? That way I add 1.5 litres more to the case, but it should still be small enough so I can chuckle when I look at it :lol:.

    Cheers
     
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  9. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun. Staff

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    It'd be about the same to maybe a little noisier. In particular from the point of gpu cooling where you'd have 2 or even 3 smaller fans so might be a little quieter, but then it has been 10years since I ran an air-cooled GPU so I have no idea how noisy they are. I do have an air-cooled 3070 in the test bench, so when I'll have to get it heated up and see what it's like. The watercooling should potentially be more efficient, even with a 140mm rad. People used to zip-tie a 120mm aio to the gpu, but they've got pretty power hungry since then. I suppose 1 thing is for sure, should be a hell of a lot more space efficient than the gargantuan coolers they have nowadays. :hehe:
     
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  10. Jean R built

    Jean R built Modder

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    Thanks @The_Crapman after winning the Corsair parts, it is the GPU cooling side that's pushing me to try it out.

    I was one of those of crafted strange structures inside the case to get the temps down too, that CPU GPU combo both overclocked could warm the desk side of the room during winter days :lol:.

    And you have to consider that as far as hardware goes my brother and I have almost identical PCs, so there were two little noisy monsters blowing heat everywhere :hehe:.

    I'm not sure how a triple fan GPUs fare in the noise department honestly, right now my modded GPU cooler with 2 120 fans is a LOT more silent than the standard one, but I aim to make the next built quiet at least the same.

    I'll try some sketches with a trio of 140 in different configurations.

    If I can't keep it extremely small well... who cares, if its better for noise and performance I'll follow that route, a 14 Litres liquid cooled case doesn't break any world record.

    Let's see how it goes.

    If anyone want to add an opinion about the number of the rads I'm listening.

    Cheers
     
  11. Bloody_Pete

    Bloody_Pete Technophile

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    If you wanted to give yourself some extra then Alphacool do 180mm and 200mm rad too, so a bit larger but, around 30% and 40% bigger on each rad...
     
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  12. Jean R built

    Jean R built Modder

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    Thanks @Bloody_Pete, I like Alphacool products they are more budget friendly too, and I love big fans because you can make them spin slower.

    I honestly thought about going big Idea, a 200 rad is slightly bigger than a 280, but the rest of the hardware is so small... I fear that those would look almost out of proportion, at least for this project, or maybe awesome :eyebrow:.

    I will try a couple of bigger rads in one of my 3D sketches, if it doesn't work I'll keep that in mind for future projects.

    This is gonna be fun :grin:

    Cheers
     
  13. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun. Staff

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    180 or 200 rad is an interesting idea. There's a massive 85mm thick 180 rad that has about the same fin surface area of three 30mm thick 140 rads. That'd be all the cooling you'd need potentially.

    I think sometimes with sff stuff people get too caught up in the capacity figure. That's why practically every 'new' sff case that comes out uses the sandwich layout as it's the most compact, but if you'd just stretch it a little here or there you could have something of a normal layout and room for properly decent cooling.

    I hope to soon be shrinking my old rig as it's itx in a mid tower and whilst originally I filled it with mad tubing runs of a dual loop, since one pump died it looks a little empty and I also enjoy the simpler cleaner tubing run of the single loop, so don't want to do dual again. I might even do 2 mods; a quick and dirty one with the current case to show one possible layout I thought of ages ago, but think i've kind of seen in a singularity case, then a proper mod and it's final resting place in another layout. Both will be in the region of 320x320x200 about 20L, laughably large for the sff crew, but still miniscule compared to most cases.
     
  14. Bloody_Pete

    Bloody_Pete Technophile

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    You could use the 200mm as the 'rear' , have an adapter plate that the motherboard attaches to it, then GPU vertically in front, then it'd be super thin! Just fan, rad, spacer, motherboard, GPU, cover! I'm resisting the urge to fire up solid workds to design it myself :grin:
     
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  15. Jean R built

    Jean R built Modder

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    Interesting, I still have to start with the crafting of the new frame, so technically speaking right now everything is possible, this is gonna be exotic :hip:.

    If you are going to craft that build, I will follow your build log :thumb:

    I have checked the 200 Radiator, I don't think I will use it in this build because it's a bit too thick, but it's better than a 280 so if I can't find a good setup with a trio of 140 I will make the 200 work :dremel:
     
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  16. Bloody_Pete

    Bloody_Pete Technophile

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    If I didn't love my PC-011 Dynamic so much I would!
     
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  17. Jean R built

    Jean R built Modder

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    If you love it there is no point in crafting the other one :thumb:

    Tomorrow I will test some other setups in my sketches, I've been playing a bit with the 140 trio and I'm getting hilarious results :hehe:.

    The frame for the Mobo, GPU, PSU and the memory is less than 8 Litres, it looks like it's the PC attached to the water loop than the other way around :lol:
     
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  18. Bloody_Pete

    Bloody_Pete Technophile

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    Aaaaaand now I have solidworks open! Damn you! :p
     
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  19. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun. Staff

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    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Bloody_Pete

    Bloody_Pete Technophile

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    Its because Alphacool list the STL's for all of their products, so makes it super easy... I'll share what I design, so watch this space!
     
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