Thanks. I was going to go for the whole "ban the bomb, only eat brussel sprouts" angle. But then I realised that the only reason I would do such a thing is to make me feel better about myself or attempt to fit in with a peer group of people who think endangering human lives for the sake of the lives of animals is a happy fun time hobby. And then I got to thinking, for every tin can I recycle, China throws a couple of tons of coal into one of it's below standard power stations burners. For every tree I plant, hundreds of "tree preservation societies" hire amazonians for slave wages to cut down football sized areas per-day, to keep up with the demand for leaflets made from those trees proclaiming how important trees are (and yes I know most of their leaflets are made from recycled paper, but it's still doing **** all for the fact the rain forests are disappearing faster than ever). For every wind farm that is erected, natural habitats suffer. If you want to save the planet, stop using man made products and man made commodities. But as someone above stated already, I don't think mankind are the direct cause of Global warming either (although we're a part of the problem). The earth does this whole heating up thing every couple hundred thousand years. It's only a matter of time until it occurs again, and we could be riding the crest of the wave that's about to break. So why trouble myself, trying to make myself feel good about what I'm doing for the enviroment, or impress pretentious hippies who hate wasting energy just to make themselves feel better about themselves, when the earth is going to have a hissy fit and **** on all that hard work anyway. Because that's all it is anyway. Nobody gives a rats ass about the state of the earth. It's all ego. So people can turn round and say "haha, I bottle my farts so the methane doesn't get into the atmosphere, what have you done for the earth today?" It's an ego thing for a time in space where caring for the planet has become a moral prerogative. I mean, if I REALLY, TRULY, cared for the enviroment, I wouldn't be using my laptop. I wouldn't be living in a building made with concrete. I wouldn't be wiping my ass on toilet paper, for the sake of the trees. I wouldn't be eating tuna to save the fishes. But I don't. Because I don't have to make myself feel better about myself to a hypocritical society that just over one hundred years ago where pumping noxious fumes into the atmosphere in the name of progress and who jump from agenda to agenda because it's trendy or morally in style. In the 80s it was aids. In the 90s it was saving whales. In the 00s it is the enviroment.
But it's like the internet, if everyone does a little bit it'll still end up pretty good even when it's full of crap. If noone did anything it would be a **** load worse than, say, if only half the people do like now. Just because there are rapists and murderers out there, and always will be, does that mean we should give up trying to catch them and/or prevent it from happening? Sure, everyone has their own limit to what they do, but if it doesnt take much effort not to be wasteful, why not?
Thats about what I do. To save gas I ride the bike whenever possible (above 40* F) and take it easy on the pedal in my truck. Could I do more, of course I could but its better to at least make an attempt rather than do nothing.
aye, you pwn. I like to help out when it's economically understandable, I'm not going to bend over backwards and buy something twice as pricy so I can save, what? 5 ozone molecules? It is all a fad, a good one if everyone follows it, but 5 years from now no one will care, we'll have degrading iron deposits to worry about or something
Not touching that whole debate... I use compact flourescent or straight flourescent bulbs almost exclusivly I recycle religiously I make it a point to turn the heat down when I go away, and I've insulated the crap out of the rooms I actually use. Typically during the winter I only keep the bedroom and bathroom warm and let the rest of the house hover around 60. Turning my computer orr though? Never. Somthing has to keep the bedroom warm if it's not the central heater
^^what The cheapskate said @ Aye: People do give a rats ass about the Earth or no one would be trying to help save it. It's not a case of "i recycled twice as many bottles as you" egomania at all, it's about just doing it. Besides, i'd rather people being egotistical about it than not do it at all. Just because it doesn't affect your lifetime doesn't mean you can leave the next generation lying deeper into the **** and giving them a harder time to clean it up. If no one cared we wouldn't invent bio diesel. If no one cared we'd all wash at 80*. If no one cared we'd all drive SUV's to work. You get the point. We can still use all the things we use today, we just have to try our best to do it in the most environmentally friendly way we can. Would it kill you to use energy saving bulbs? Would it kill you to send your tins to the recycler? Would it kill you to walk into town rather than take the car? It's not that it's not going to help.. it's that people like you are too lazy and self important to care and actually make a few lifestyle changes that benefit generations to come. When mankind is living under a cloud of dust so thick and hot we have to carry breathing aparatus around with us, who are they going to thank? People like you who couldn't be bothered doing the slightest thing to help. I'm not saying we can completely save the planet because it's too far gone. But we could prolong it for a very long time if we really wanted. Duh. Should we not have bothered to research the disease in order to find a cure? They'vre managed to cure monkeys infected with it. If they hadn't researched aids and how it was spread, it would be even bigger than it was back then. Duh. Point is, whales are extremely endangered, and had we not been told about protecting their environment, they could well be dead today. Not only would a species be extinct but food chain alterations could have drastic consequences This has been a hot topic for a lot longer than 2000, but it's just now we're coming to grips with how bad its got. Trouble was, people didn't really care back then because they didn't understand. Urgh this is long enough ranting ¬_¬ Just remember that EVERY LITTLE BIT HELPS! and do it!
Yes, instead of throwing the McDonalds bag out the window wait until you can at least throw it into a garbage can. Or if theres a recycle bin and a garbage bin next to each other then throw your recyclable soda bottle in the recycle. Instead of driving your fat lazy a** 20ft to the neighbors house walk. Its not had to do.
Though I agree with aye this is true. But that's mainly about litter, which is just pure laziness. I can understand if you don't want to buy a hybrid for 50k when you can get the same model for 30k on gas. AIDS is important but, call me inhumane if you must, the best way to treat that is quarantine. And whales actually are a big deal, but is global warming? Yes. Is there much impact of individuals helping? Not much. It's all the corporate level waste. One factory is going to put out enough CO2 that it will equal the majority of a person's waste over their whole life, what's the point of buying these special light bulbs when the manufacturing still puts out waste?
I'm with the rest of the moral majority on rapists and murderers. And I am for the simple fact I believe in Arthur Schopenhauers statement about how the only person who has any right to his own life or person is themselves. But for my lifestyle choice. No. And if the guy oasked is going to look down his nose at me (ego) because of my nice attitude to mother earth I'm going to tell him exactly why I don't buy into the futile nonsense of green living. Yes it could be like the internet, but it isn't. Because in reality, for every person that does their bit, there is a global conglomerate who shits on everyones hard work in the name of "profit".
Why do you do it? And analyse your answer philosophically. (That means question your answer and it's answer and the answer after that). I'm sure, deep down somewhere in the back of the mind is the niggling little thought, "well, everyone else is doing it and it seems like a worthy cause and think of the bunnies and the trees... but most importantly think of that sense of achievement for yours truly I'll feel all warm inside". Why? Why would you rather people do it than not do it at all? What difference to you does it make if someone does or does not? Not one goddamn bit of difference. Except for the fact that you know there are people out there (like me) who do it, so you look down your nose at them. Bio-diesel was invented because people panicked when they thought the earth might run out of their precious liquid gold. People don't drive SUVs to work? People don't drive SUVs on school runs? People drive what they can afford to run. For no other reason. That's why P-Diddy, pop-n-puff, 50 pence, Sting and rockstars, own a hybrid, but still jet around the world in a ****ing humvee with wings and whatever else is flavour of the month to grossly overpaid no-talent morons. EGO. "HAHA, I'm rich, I own a fleet of highly over-priced, ridiculously fuel inefficent monstrosities to make up for my lack of penis, but I own a hybrid and recycle my crystal bottles..... WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR THE ENVIROMENT!" I never said we couldn't use the things we do today. But it's kind of hypocratic to bash on about how much people should be doing to save the enviroment when nearly every concievable item in your house has at some point been through a process which would damage the enviroment. Too lazy? Too self important? Humans are habitual animals. If you train them to believe what they're doing is for the benefit of the greater good, they'll do it. Like crusading across the middle east. Or enslaving africans. Or gassing jews. Or recycling. (And no I'm not comparing the death of millions of jews to recycling. I'm comparing the acceptablity and tolerance shown towards such actions when it was justified morally to the peer group of the locale and time to be of benefit of the greater good). Yes. And like I said.... by that time I will be to dead to care. I don't care if my great great great grand-children have to swim through the atmosphere like land walking deep sea divers. I'll be to dead to care. Like I already stated (and science has shown) the earth heats up, the atmosphere becomes ridiculously unstable and **** hits the fan every couple hundred thousand years. And try as we might, one thing (especially since the start of the 00s) man has realised, is he can't stop nature. Monkeys carry aids naturally. They haven't "cured" any monkeys. Because it's specifically believed that monkeys transferred the aids virus to humans. Duh. And? A hot topic for the lunatic fringe, who pushed it into the moral foreground, helped by the media hype surrounded by scientists telling everyone the world was warming up, when in reality they knew it was going to happen anyway, because anyone who knows anything about earths history will know that the earth has a tendency to heat up. Which is helped by... not the atmosphere, but the deepest oceans. Sulphur chimneys, hundred of active undersea volcanoes spewing sulphur into the oceans and what not. In all honesty. Thanks for taking the time out for such a lenghty responce to my post.
I do it because i feel a sense of gatification that what im doing can help the planets survival. I don't do it because everybody else is, and i don't feel like im a god because i send my bottle to the bottle bank. Why do you not recycle? and question your answers answer to the answer your about to give, and then question it again ¬_¬ It doesnt make a difference to me, it makes a difference to the planet. I don't look down my nose at anyone unless they are immoral, so i could gladly look down my nose at you. Not thinking that im better than you for such and such a reason, only because your too nihilistic. But at least most rockstars are extremely beneficial, not only do they help people with music, but they donate extremely generously to charities. And if you think they're just giving money away for "ego", then you can go suck on a cancer pop and see just how much it would mean to you that artists are giving their money to your cause. Though i do wish they would drive their hybrids other than suped up behemoths to look "cool" I'm not saying people should be bending over backwards, i'm saying even just a little bit will help the cause. I agree, my house has been built from brick, and i don't see why they should be when stone houses were being built for eons before we found out rock could be fired into bricks. And stone was far more stable =S Wood houses are the worst. Not only are they piss poor for holding off any gale force winds, but people destroy entire forests to build these death-traps. I could have never, EVER have believed invading other countries, killing people, enslaving africans or gassing Jews was justified even if it was considered fine by any populous at the time. But i'm not a heartless brain-dead moron. Unfortunately a lot of people are. Would you have sat there slurping the whisky an African slave had served you and said: "You know, i have no feeling for these people. They make my life easier, and no one else is saying it's bad to have them do my bidding. **** em. Get me another one jeeves"? Basically what your saying is "I'm not gonna walk down the bottle bank, it's too far and it won't make a difference anyway. Besides.. iv'e got too much going on in my life to help people in a future im not going to be a part of.. hand me the remote" Proving once again that you care for no one but yourself. Why? Yes the Earth does heat up, BUT, nature didn't cause that huge gap in the ozone. Nature didn't cause that huge layer of carbon dioxide. Nature didn't create acid rain. The list goes on and on. Thruth is, that the human race has done far more damage to the planet than nature EVER could. They have indeed blocked the aids virus in monkeys with a drug that prevents the virus from copying itself into any cell in the body. Saw it on the BBC a while back, the day after my GCSE exam results in 2004 actually. though i've not heard much about it recently and cannot find the article. just as i thought.. selfish and immoral They might well have known it was warming up. But what they're also trying to tell is is what i mentioned previously. We are more than partly to blame for the damage we have caused to our atmosphere. And the damage we are causing is starting to show its effects. If we don't stop burning fossil fules at great rates, or dumping all of our waste in vast landfills, butchering trees for things to draw on or live inside, then we are going to suffer the consequences. But people, like you, have completely ignored it.. and look where it's got us. And you for yours..
And what do you care for the planets survival if you'll be to dead to see the glorious benefits of all your hard work? You do it to feel better about yourself. Because at this moment in time, right now, the enviroment is every moralists goto agenda. It's a peer pressure scenario on the grandest of scales. I don't recycle, because.... what's the point? I don't go out of my way to litter and pollute. But I don't go out of my way to recycle either. Why don't I make more of an effort? Because, big business will **** on all my hard work in the name of profit. While I'm recycling coke tins, they're burning tons of coal to power generators to produce electricity to recycle that coke tin. And what's the point. I'm immoral? Because I do not choose to jump on the bandwagon of what is currently "in vogue" and acceptable moral behaviour in regards to recycling? I have no problem with people who want to recycle, but don't get on a high horse at me because I don't believe in a "winning vote" policy on recycling. And I wouldn't consider myself Nihilistic, more Anarcho-libertarianist. And to quote Oscar Wilde; "A man who moralises is usually a hypocrite". I don't doubt that Rockstars and music moguls do benefit the people. But donate "extremely generously". No. If they really cared and donated extremely generously, they'd sell up all that materialistic crap they purchased and do something productive instead of ranting and raving about how the world needs to stand up and feed africa, then **** off to showbiz parties to drink and scoff their faces with the social elite (we know you're reading this Bono you jumped up potato munching hypocratic buffon). Because Yes. It's all about ego. They want to be remembered as a shining beacon that gave hope to so many less fortunate. And that's not a bad thing. Helping others around you. But never ever assume that they're doing it for all the most enlightened of reasons. Because people are people. ID, Ego, Super-ego. Specifically ego ideal and conscience. The ego ideal is stored learned acceptable behaviour. The conscience, the negative. We're little robots. And we're influenced by what is currently morally acceptable, in an effort to fit into our peer groups and if we think something would help us climb the heirarchy of our peer groups social ladder, we'll do it... Because we're human. And that's what we do. And if the "in" crowd are saving the enviroment this year, then by jove that's what the majority of people will do as well. Which again, is a noble thing. But don't make me feel like a social outcast or criminal because I don't want to join in this enviromental free for all circle jerk. And by god don't get on a moralistic pew and try to demonise those who don't follow suit by either legislation or social disapproval (the latter, already quite blatantly happening). And I'm not denying that. All I'm saying is despite are best efforts and best intentions, people (namely business) will **** over progress, in the name of profit. And if it's economically more viable to burn coal than bottle cow farts, all that enviromental work means nothing. Rock isn't fired into brick. It's clay. The process of manufacturing concrete is extremely pollutant. Yet nearly every single building that goes up, will have concrete in it. From it's foundations, to it's chimney tops. Log cabins? They're quite good in the mountains. Because they're easier to heat than brick and mortar. They retain the heat better and keep the cold out better. And vice versa come the summer. The japanese built wooden houses that withstand earthquakes and typhoons. So they can't be all that bad. And wooden houses that are built properly, without any wasteage whatsoever are cheaper to build than their concrete alternatives. Link to the woodsmans house, for just one example. But isn't the very basis of something being morally acceptable is when it is considered fine and acceptable by the populous? That is morality. People may have many varying morals, but they mean absolutely nothing when the moral majority are in power. As for the slaves, no, I wouldn't. Again because I believe in the absolute freedom of all the people from any form of physical, mental or materialistic control (a utopian ideology I know, but I can but dream). Walking to the bottle bank isn't a problem. It's two minutes away. And I don't drink, so I won't have to carry much. Personally I don't have alot going on in my life. Which is why I'm trying not to fill it with inane crap like worrying about something that I will never benefit from. Like a future with clean air. Assumption. A negative and incorrect one. Nature did not cause the hole in the ozone layer, no. Nature did not cause that huge layer of carbon dioxide. Unless of course you don't think volcanic eruptions create carbon dioxide. That decaying plant matter and animals don't create carbon dioxide. That breathing doesn't create carbon dioxide. The earths early atmosphere was composed mostly of.... carbon monoxide. Human blame is only part of the problem to the enhancement of the earths own NATURAL greenhouse effect. They have not cured or blocked the aids virus. Monkeys have always been able to carry it. Humans have not. If you want to beat the aids virus, get circumcised. While not a complete cure, the benefits are astonishing. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6176209.stm Opinion, and while you're completely open to voice it, I'm afraid you're incorrect. Possibly selfish and immoral because I do not share the same beliefs or support the same agendas as you. Which would therefore make you selfish and immoral for assuming that everyone in the world is selfish and immoral because they don't believe what you do. That is if we were throwing childish insults around. I'm not saying we're not to blame. But our efforts to curb the enthusiastic random unpredictability of mother nature, have all failed. I haven't ignored it. I know it's happening. But like I said, when I throw my tin can in the recycling and a global conglomerate burns acres of forest to power a recycling plant for my one tin can.... what is the point? Your welcome.
these are just getting lengthier and lengthier lol, i can't be bothered anymore =P but don't let this fool you into thinking you've beaten me (like a lot of people do) P.S. you seem determined to say that one can wont make a difference when factopries just burn all your difference away. How many factories are gonna burn at once? and if evertyone on the planet (yes, all 6 billion of us) recycled all our waste, i'm more than certain we could make a difference!
I've mostly got energy saving lightbulbs. I turn stuff off when not needed. I've also got a more efficient fridge freezer and replaced a clapped out boiler for a new combi condensing boiler. The local council have a recycling collection and the green curver box is nearly always full on the fortnightly collection date. Go me.
errm I've got a induction kit in my car so more MPG, so less fuel? lol If I do, do stuff. I honestly don't know about it.
Although I disagree (to some extent) with Aye, it's nice to see an intelligent, well-thought-out point being put across. Although we do nothing in the grand scheme of things, however, I believe humans should minimize their impact on the earth as much as possible - I don't do the things I do to be green for some misguided belief that I'm going to stop global warming in its tracks, or anything like that.
Personally I just about recycle some things, and use energy saving bulbs where I have them I should do more though. I guess cycling everywhere helps but thats not really a choice, just something imposed on me. If anybody is interested I wrote a (fairly basic and general) paper not long ago on what the impact of using renewable energy sources in south asia would be - inc the fact that if the hydropotential of the himalayan mountains was tapped it would provide enough electricity for the whole of the UK (supposing infrastructure was there to transport it to the UK). Its also quite interesting the differance there is between us and LDCs, the bottom of the argument being start using renewables now or expect an energy crisis for us when china/india/pakistan start taking their share of the worlds energy. edit: alternatively peition your MP for more money into nuclear fusion research... Iter.
anyone else feel like aye is here to troll? i didn't count them, but are all 18 of his posts in this thread? Also, amusingly enough, most factories and industry (at least in the US) have to meet more stringent requirements for waste than the general public ever will (recycling waste materials, waste water, increased energy costs)... There's actually a huge amount of legislation in regards to industry and what's required, so much so, that most manufacturing or industrial engineering programs in colleges require students to take several "green" engineering courses
