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Motors The Official bit-tech F1 2013 Thread

Discussion in 'General' started by alastor, 11 Jan 2013.

  1. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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    It is the same thing over and over again, until it is not confirmed then it is not a done deal. Everyone refers back to the Bild article which right now is pretty much the only source of this information.
     
  2. BentAnat

    BentAnat Software Dev

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    I am still not convinced by the Raikonen/Ferrari rumours... I'd be OK with it, though. Ferrari is pressing for constructor's if nothing else, and Massa isn't really bringing the goods.

    That leavesa seat open at Lotus, which I reckon DiResta could do well in (and save Lotus some money). The Hulk is Sauber's only playing card now, so I think they're less likely to let him go, unless Ferrari offers a deal of sorts.

    Re; next year - Anyone that can WILL move to a factory team. There is an advantage in being in one, since there's (at least a bit) more data on the engine there.
     
  3. David

    David Take my advice — I’m not using it.

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    I'm half expecting lotus to go with a pay driver. They are struggling, and have been late paying Kimi's wages apparently - the salary of Di Resta or Massa won't empty the kitty as much as Kimi's, I'll admit - I suppose it depends on how tight the purse strings are.

    Massa is good enough to get a seat in most teams (save the very top tier) in my opinion, but there's almost nowhere for him to go. Sauber have a pay driver lined up, and the most teams around their level and below are dependent on pay drivers to survive. How secure is Bottas at Williams? Maybe he'll fancy teaming up with Ross Brawn again, if the rumours are true.
     
  4. BentAnat

    BentAnat Software Dev

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    Massa's only REAL shot is (I feel) with the lower midfield, if he goes.

    Lotus don't want him, since they HAVE a fast car (so less need for a "development driver") and a fast driver (Grosjean is plenty quick if not crashing). So I feel that for their money, they rather grab a cheap, aggressive driver that'll gel well with Grosjean (If my estimation is right, Kimi is probably a bit Like Kubica as a teammate, in that he doesn't share info well).

    So based on my guess (and as I write this, I am preparing to eat my words), IF Massa goes and Kimi takes his spot, then DiResta will get the Lotus seat. That leaves one at Force India - they can't really afford Massa either, so they will likely try to snipe an upcoming driver. Maybe Bottas, even. THAT then leaves a spot for Massa at one of the teams that need a driver that has driven a modern, competitive F1 car.
     
  5. stonedsurd

    stonedsurd Is a cackling Yuletide Belgian

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    You're forgetting the massive aero/engine reset next year. Every team needs a solid development driver right now and Lotus is no exception.

    If they don't have a development driver and pick another hothead, then they will go under fast. Rebuilds are expensive and sponsors like their names on intact cars, not bits of carbonfibre strewn across the countryside. Lotus is between a rock and a hard place if the rumours of Kimi's departure are true.

    If Massa wants to stay in F1, he'll take a pay cut or organise personal sponsors - do whatever it takes to stay at the pointy end of the field. Very few top-tier drivers end their careers at backmarker/midfield teams. They move to another category (DTM, WEC etc) if staying at the sharp end of F1 doesn't work.
     
  6. wolfticket

    wolfticket Downwind from the bloodhounds

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    I really hope Lotus don't have to go with an obvious pay driver. I don't tend to support teams, but I can't help but be impressed by Lotus. They're hugely over achieving given their budget, and they have an illustrious history as the Enstone outfit. Plus the car is very very pretty in my opinion :)

    If Raikkonen does leave I hope they go with Hulkenberg. He would have missed out on the Ferrari drive, and probably won't want to risk staying with Sauber or making another sideways or backwards move. Lotus would seem to be the only option for him to move up the grid. I think it could be mutually beneficial.

    It's sad if a team as successful as Lotus has to resort to pay drivers to stay afloat. It rather suggests there is something amiss in the structure of the sport.
     
  7. BentAnat

    BentAnat Software Dev

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    Good points all the way through there, stonedsurd.

    The testing/development driver issue is a BIT circumventable if the team already HAS a car for next year.
    Example: Mercedes switched half their workforce to 2014 AGES ago. Lotus is likely to go more than 50% now, much like mercedes surely will.

    Of course, that just means that they want to retain Kimi at any cost (can't really develop a car if your driver's going to a main rival next year). Think Brawn 2009 - maybe not entirely as competent, but an early development could make all the difference here.
    You are right, though - all teams SHOULD be prepared for an arms race next year, with plenty of rules clarifications, etc.

    About Massa: DTM/WEC is of course an option... but somehow, I get pictures of Barichello here... may or may not be based on anything more superficial than their nationality.
     
  8. stonedsurd

    stonedsurd Is a cackling Yuletide Belgian

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    Yep, The Hulk at Lotus would be nice, because at least he tends to bring the car home intact. And we have all yet to see what he can do with a real car.

    Absolutely agreed. It's getting ridiculous when >50% of the field, including top teams, either already are, or soon will be, using pay drivers in some form or another.

    Ferrari - Alonso (Santander)
    McLaren - Perez (Telmex)
    Sauber - Sirotkin (Russian bailout for Sauber)
    Williams - Maldonado (PDVSA)
    Caterham - Pic (can't remember)
    Marussia - Chilton (daddy has deep pockets, IIRC)

    And these are just the ones bringing in amounts of cash significant enough to be attractive and make the news. Ferrari famously bought Kimi out of his contract in order get Santander and Fernando on board. It must be said that of all the drivers I've listed, Alonso and Perez would probably have a place on the grid based on talent alone, although in Perez's case, he would have had a much longer journey without Telmex.

    Designing the car is one thing. Testing it to be ready for Round 1, and then developing it through the season to remain competitive is quite another.

    Perhaps, but I stand by what I said, drivers come first. Barrichello, one has to remember, finished third in the WDC in the same car that Jenson won in. So even Brawn isn't an entirely apt example.

    JPM and Barichello went to the USA, where the money is good but the racing is a completely different world. So it's up to Massa if he wants to stay competitive or rich :lol:
     
  9. Throbbi

    Throbbi New Member

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    I love all this speculation and guessing every year :D

    The upcoming drivers are a big unknown factor here and I'll throw a few names out who I expect to see at least one of in an F1 seat next year; Davide Valsecchi, Sam Bird and Stefano Coletti. They've all be highly impressive the last 2 years in GP2, I honestly think one them will be in the now vacant Toro Rosso seat.
     
  10. Tim S

    Tim S OG

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    Breaking in the last few minutes...

    Massa announces he will not be driving for Ferrari next year: http://instagram.com/p/eFyM4QHLf1/

    EDIT: Thinking about this more, I'm actually quite sad about it. He was so close, yet so far from winning the WDC in 2008 and his dignity in defeat was unquestionable. His accident in 2009 was horrific and, on one side, he was treated well by Ferrari (for waiting for him to return) but on the other side I feel he was mistreated as a support driver for Alonso. He's a true ambassador to the sport and I sincerely hope he finds a competitive spot on the grid next year.
     
    Last edited: 10 Sep 2013
  11. stonedsurd

    stonedsurd Is a cackling Yuletide Belgian

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    After baying for his blood for the past two years, the announcement still left me feeling kind of sad and empty. It hadn't occurred to how much Massa was a part of the team. More Ferrari starts than any driver in history save for Schumacher.

    Now for the announcement - Kimi or The Hulk? Or both and an ignominious exit for Alonso?
     
  12. 13eightyfour

    13eightyfour Formerly Titanium Angel

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    Whilst it was fairly obvious Massa wouldn't be there next year, I too feel a little sad now that its been announced, hopefully he'll end up in a semi competitive car for a couple of seasons before retiring.

    Kimi and Alonso in the same team I'm in 2 minds about it could be a stroke of genius or equally a 'car crash' waiting to happen!
     
  13. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    For me Mass going is a bit like when Barrichello went... you could see it coming from miles away, but having it confirmed was/is still a bit of a shock...
     
  14. bodkin

    bodkin Overheating

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    Really hope Massa finds a seat for next year, always seems like such a nice guy!

    Also, what happens to Rob Smedley? He is awesome!
     
  15. j_jay4

    j_jay4 Member

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    You can tell Alonso isn't happy about this. Raikkonen isn't going to pull over everytime Alonso is behind him, he wants a second world championship just as much as Alonso a third.

    Really hope Massa finds a drive, the sport can't afford to loose such a driver and I think in a team where he's allowed to race with his team mate he can do really well.
     
  16. sandys

    sandys Well-Known Member

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    Massa is a good driver he's bound to find something, I hope its decent and he finds his old form.
     
  17. j_jay4

    j_jay4 Member

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    What are his options?
    Red Bull, Mercedes - Booked up
    McLaren, replace Button? Not likely IMO
    Lotus - Seem more interested in Hulkenberg, keeping Grosjean?

    There's talk of Sauber but I don't think their car will be competitive next year, it has had it's decent races every now and again but there's no consistency. Force India, Williams? He won't win races in these cars.

    Fingers crossed for Lotus I think
     
  18. bodkin

    bodkin Overheating

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    Massa must be a better choice for Lotus than Grosjean, has has not been what you would call a great success.
     
  19. 13eightyfour

    13eightyfour Formerly Titanium Angel

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    I would guess he'll end his career where he started at Sauber, maybe not the most competitive option but maybe his relations with Ferrari could sweeten the deal for Sauber.

    I would be shocked if the seats available at Lotus and Ferrari aren't filled by Hulk and Kimi tbh which doesn't leave any other real options but Hulks seat at Sauber imo.
     
  20. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Well-Known Member

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    That would be the best for the team, regardless of his skill Alonso seems to be poison for the morale of any team he sets foot in, him and Kimi 'I don't give a ****' Raikkonnen together is a disaster waiting to happen. More specifically it'll be a disaster when Kimi very publicly tells Alonso exactly what he thinks of him and his reliance on team orders.

    Of course Luca may be banking on this to remind Alonso that Ferrari does in fact not revolve around him.

    I think Kimi/Alonso will happen, for one season at the very least as it's such a marketable combination. By the same token I think that by this time next year one of them will be replaced by Hulkenberg to avoid one killing the other.
     

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