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News Valve to punish TF2 cheaters, reward others

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by CardJoe, 3 Sep 2009.

  1. AshT

    AshT Custom User Title

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    Maybe they are angry because its a hat they will NEVER own for their collection?

    ;)
     
  2. cjmUK

    cjmUK Old git.

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    Yes. The idling is the cheating. However, running a 3rd Party app is the thing that breaks the T&Cs. As someone has already said, it's similar to Stats Padding - and many games frown upon this - but I've no idea whether there is anything specifically mentioned in the T&Cs.

    The fake idle gives you a greater chance of getting extra unlocks compared to people simply playing the game. It's not a big deal, I know, but it is against the rules, so you shouldn't really complain.

    There isn't a trading system in place, and I don't expect Valve will particularly want one. Nevertheless, as a customer you can a) make your case to Valve b) not buy/play the game or c) break the rules to try to achieve your objectives.

    You, and others, chose C. You thought it was low risk, and you that thought if the mood changes you would get plenty of warning and be able to react accordingly. But Valve have abruptly flexed their muscles and have back-dated their punishment. A bit of a shock, but you can't complain. Low risk does not mean no risk.

    Indeed.



    There is a lot that goes on in gaming that many of us would consider undesirable. But sometimes it's difficult for the devs to do much about it. However, in this case, Valve know who the infringers are and have been motivated to do something about it - not necessarily a bad thing IMHO. You can argue all you want about whether idling is technically breaking the rules all you want, but I think most people agree that it is outside the spirit of the rules, and to me that is what is important.
     
  3. Dreaming

    Dreaming What's a Dremel?

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    cjmUK -

    I kind of agree, but just to look at this from another angle - the issues presented to us are:

    a) Valve initially planned a trading system, it's just not been released yet. The hats are cool, but the systems (drop system, trading system) aren't in place, which is why almost nobody has one. They've acknowledged they're working on this, and said it's a work in progress - they're trying to see what does and doesn't work. Sure some people are happy to wait, but some of us are impatient and just want a single hat as it is unlikely you will get one in normal play (unless you are a lucky).

    b) Valve never made a rule about it saying it was cheating. It was against the TOC, but then the sheer number of people doing it and also the fact it was never challenged made it almost de facto legitimate. That is until, the other day of course.

    As of now, Valve have tripled the drop rate (so avg of 200 hours of play for 1 hat will become an average of 70 hours, still a lot really, but more manageable tbh). Hopefully soon, they may or may not implement the trading system to allow people who have a hat for a class they don't play, to get one for a class they do play.

    But, as I said before the two things are it's mainly cosmetic and the main objection is being publicly branded a cheater by Valve, and also they should be spending more time on the soldier / demoman updates than almost non issues. I mean, the other week they released a 'medal' for the first few thousand people to visit a website. It's not really the best use of their resources, and it annoyed a lot of people because unless you were an insomnic or in the EST time zone, you didn't really have a chance to get one.

    That's why people tried to get hats, because they didn't really have a chance to get one any other way, AND the fact that Valve didn't seem particularly bothered.
     
  4. Dreaming

    Dreaming What's a Dremel?

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  5. impar

    impar Minimodder

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    Greetings!

    Its a moral/ethics issue.
    Some could clearly see that "idling" was amoral/unethical, others just fail to see it.
     
  6. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    To be honest, as a casual TF2 player, it's hilarious to me the amount that the exploiters are complaining over totally superficial items. They didn't earn them, and now they're complaining when items that do absolutely nothing are removed from them. Pretty much everyone who didn't exploit that I've talked to seems to just find you non-halo'rs a big source of roffles.
     
  7. Xec

    Xec What's a Dremel?

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    it does look neat ^_^

    [​IMG]
     
  8. kingred

    kingred Surfacing sucks!

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    Well valves reaction was stupid. Items unlocked on the old system showed people completed achievements, whereas now they have are worth nothing. Hats are a status symbol because of their rarity. I did use the idler and and i gained nothing, and lost nothing. I still have my high level weapons and only one non-hat (rick ricks hair fixator isnt a damn hat ffs) so nothing of value was lost. Except my respect in valves descision making and branding people cheaters for thinking outside the box.
     
  9. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    Oh come on! Thinking outside the box? It's an exploit which goes against the spirit of the game.
     
  10. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Wetsander

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    It wasn't so much of an exploit as a game simulator. But even so what pisses me off is I gave it up about a month ago, deciding the hats were pointless, the idler program was unethical, and my power bill was more important overall. So I forgot about TF2 until this announcement (and the classless update.) Lo and behold, I log on to TF2 and see that "my account (was) flagged for circumventing the unlock system..."

    Even though I haven't used idle (much less played) in a month, WELL before the announcement, I'm still a cheater. Even though I came to my ****ing senses. WTG Valve, GG. :wallbash:
     
  11. cjmUK

    cjmUK Old git.

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    Clearly, idling is not a crime and the moral positions are way, way different, but parallels are there. You did the crime, and you will proverbially do the time. It's good that you've see the error of your ways, and even better that you came to the conclusion on your own. However, why should you escape 'punishment' (especially given that the 'punishment' isn't even remotely punitive)?

    Even if you were to be given dispensation for eventually doing The Right Thing (tm), how were valve to know this? Did you contact them and confess to your indiscretion?

    For you this turn of events should be no biggy... Many other idlers genuinely don't understand that they were cheating; you did (and to your credit, you acted accordingly). So there shouldn't be any indignation given that you already accept you were in the wrong.
     
  12. DbD

    DbD Minimodder

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    The only thing I don't like about the current drop system is the fact you pick up multiples of the same thing. Even if I could trade everyone has every item (other then hats) so I don't want to be informed I have another jarate or whatever, particularly as this happens in game when I am trying to shoot people.

    As for the hats - you only lost the hats you hadn't earned fairly anyway - sure you now have none, but most of the people who didn't idle only have one at most. I didn't idle and have one hat (other then the halo) so you are now one hat behind me.
     
  13. eek

    eek CAMRA ***.

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    Like downloading music illegally, so many people do it that it can't be wrong, right? :eyebrow:
     
  14. AshT

    AshT Custom User Title

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    Well said eek.
     
  15. shomann

    shomann Minimodder

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    I fall into the camp of gamer - I play to have fun and be competitive and pride myself in the abilities have learned au-natural. I tend to take a dim view of people that cheat, hack, or otherwise bend the rules of the game to gain any advantage.

    The hats system in TF2 , while totally cosmetic, is a perk. Its a rare item for those that play alot. If EVERYONE has hats, its take a bit of meaning away from the perk - thereby decreasing their so-called "value". By idling, or using an artificial method to "fake" the drop system into giving you something you didn't earn, you are cheating.

    It doesn't matter if there wasn't a glowing neon sign when the game loads up telling you the rules. You KNOW you are trying to do something that is wrong. Having your items stripped is a good method, as opposed to being banned, of slapping your wrist.

    Another method would have been to temp-ban that section of players after a warning, but its clear that Valve was sending a message: "We are watching, and we will react". In my opinion, it was a justified response.

    BTW, if I see any medics refusing to heal my holy-self, rest assured I won't be going out of my way to help you either ;)
     
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