Welcome to the United Kingdom, where "Adult" really means "Baby" and irrational laws are the rule, not the exception. Our morality and hence our legal system has got so lost in public outrage and reactionism that it's just a mish-mash of mob feeling mixed with the flavour of the day.
Are you being serious? In short, you think that if ,8" longer blades and locking knives were legal, everyone would suddenly carry one? And just as suddenly all criminals start packing guns? WHAT? Just... What? EDIT: Also come to think of it, over here things are quite different. Back in middle school we did our own knives in wood works. I just measured and the blade is 10 cm long, which is pretty standard for Finnish puukko. So I guess someone now feels the urge to sue Finnish scholar system for instantly turning all the pupils to murderers? It's just all so silly. People hurt other people no matter what the blade length and what's banned.
I've normally got a swiss army knife on me, although it tends to be buried in a bag rather than in a pocket. They're just handy things to carry about, and get a surprising amount of use. It's a tool, I've no need for a bigger blade, although a lock would be nice sometimes. In all honesty, i think i use the small blade more than the big one. Its not something i'd consider for self-defense, and if i did get mugged, I'd much rather hand over the £20 in my wallet and my phone running a remote lock and GPS tracker.
Then again, are people behaving as "adults"? Thought not. Reciprocal roles: you get the relationship behaviour you elicit by yours.
Well, someone is behaving as an adult because they're telling me how to behave. That's an adult role. If they get to play at being adults then so do I.
There is always going to be people who break the law, that's a given for any law really, but it's not justification for having not having the laws in the first place. That's like saying 'people are going to break the speed limit anyway, so why bother having speed limits at all'
Nexxo, is it not a chicken and egg thing? Just to clarify the self-defense thing, I would much rather be faced with a gun at close quarters, than a knife. A gun is only potentially lethal in one, very small direction. Get off that line, and you live. Any bladed weapon is a lot harder to evade in an up close situation.
Why do I need to carry a knife? Seriously? I'm so glad lock knives and guns are illegal. Its part of the reason why we have such a low murder rate compared to the US.
You wouldn't happen to be a TNPer, would you? Mugging/killing is illegal too but that doesn't stop them from doing it, do you think making locking knives illegal to carry would disarm them and prevent muggings? I'm not even going to read the rest of the thread, we had these discussions quite a few times now. edit: i glimpsed at the one above mine. Damnit. Who says you need to? If you don't see any way it could be useful for you, then by all means don't waste room in your pocket for one. But don't disregard its valid uses based on your personal needs. Many people find them to be handy EDC tools.
The way I see knife laws are not as a complete deterrent to criminals but just simply a way to prosecute people who carry knifes for the purpose* of causing harm. The size is just a limit, ie you have to have a limit somewhere, it allows people to carry a small swiss army knife for a valid purpose*. Yes that is going to cause some harm if you chose to use it like that, but its less likely to be lethal than a 6" blade. I also do, probably naively believe that controlling guns and knives by making it illegal to carry them does stop gun/knife crime escalating. The only reason you need to carry a gun/knife for self defence is because other people have them, if less people have them there's less chance of needing to use it. Criminals will always have them, but I also know people who would never carry one because it is illegal, but would probably end up using one if they had one on them. Is that what you really want, people who are moderately violent (ie, might get in the odd scrap), more so than a "normal" person, but not as much as a "fully fledged criminals" ending up stabbing and shooting people? *proving intent and purpose of carrying a knife is a whole other argument and has been discussed before so I am not going into it here.
Not being able to fight back doesn't mean that you won't get hurt, it's not like there is a 'bad guy code' where unarmed people automatically 'just get robbed' and not stabbed/shot. I'm just more comfortable walking around certain areas with my dad's Buck 110, even though it's only ever been used for gutting fish and opening boxes..
If you have a reasonable excuse for a knife outside the constraints of the law you'll generally be ok, I've been stopped for a light out on the way home from a mates @ 3am, first question I was asked by the police was are you carrying a knife or screwdriver, I was and it was technically illegal, but it's carried as part of my job. Same with the box of tools in the boot, most of them specialist tools designed or built to bypass aftermarket vehicle security systems none of which are available to the general public. I'm an aftermarket alarm and multimedia fitter, not a thief
I carry a knife, a non-legal one, at all times. I've lived in a few very rough places and people will not hesitate to use anything as a weapon. Mine being substantially more scary looking might make them think twice and if not, it's guaranteed to give me a greater chance than a poxy swiss army knife.
Any government should not be permitted to set limits on the personal freedoms of its populace because it judges them to be acting irresponsibly. Unless of course you like the whole "vanguard of the proletariat" thing, I guess... Wouldn't say so. Plenty of people go on armed killing sprees, it's not difficult to get a hold of guns or knives in this country. There are so many millions of other factors that contribute so very much more to the comparatively low murder rate of this country that I wouldn't even put illegality of weapons on there. You'd probably find that the legalization of weapons on a national scale would do little to the crime/murder rate (we seemed to get along O.K. pre-Dunblane, after all). One thing you should know about murder is that it is very rarely premeditated. This is why objects like hammers, screwdrivers and kitchen knives are so often the weapon of choice. You can argue that we should lock up all potential weapons and have our citizens eat with rubber knives and so on, but I think that giving people the freedom of choice is generally a good thing. I don't much like to see a government that is able to make arbitrary choices wrt. my personal safety with no checks and balances to stop it from going mental and banning everything under the sun. RE: "Why do I need to carry a knife", there are myriad reasons. Someone might be a climber, in which case they might need to cut strands of rope. You might want to have a serrated, locking blade on you in order to cut safety belts in the event of an accident (this is extremely useful, take it from me). You might work in a job that requires the use of a knife. Why does anybody need anything? Just because you don't use it in every day life doesn't mean nobody else does. I don't use a hammer much in my day to day business, but that doesn't mean I don't think anybody else has a valid reason for using them. Probably what scares me more than the govt. randomly banning things that aren't that dangerous is the populace agreeing with them and making every day objects out to be massively hazardous.. It's just a tool, man. Just because it can be used to kill people doesn't mean that's all it's good for.
I'm 38, I've carried a knife virtually every day since I was about 10, from simple non locking and locking blades up to about 4", presently I carry a Gerber multi tool on my hip all day everyday with a locking blade of whatever size it is I resent being told what I can and can not do in a blanket fashion by 'the man' when the best person to decide what I need is me. I have yet felt the need to poke the pointy end into anyone and the only blood I've ever drawn was my own so I will continue to carry a knife in one form or another.
I would agree with this I never carry a knife daily but there has been occasions i carry a knife for protection Theres a cycle track near me thats fairly secluded its been notorious for attacks and sexual assaults on darker nights, including stabbings. My main reason is not to exculate the situation (i would use fists before a knife) but if its either stab or be stabbed i would probebly pick stab...
No, it's a parental role. Most reciprocal roles are. As Spec said, our morality and hence our legal system is directed by public outrage and reactionism that it's just a mish-mash of mob feeling mixed with the flavour of the day. But that is because the public wants it like that. It will only vote for politicians who pander to this dynamic and act like the judgemental and paternalistic parents the public wants them to be. If you want a big daddy to take control, then sooner or later that is what you get.
Right, but I reject parentage. I reject their assertion that they can tell me what is right and wrong, I do not need them for that and I will not pay heed to what they tell me to obey (the law). I live by my own rules, which I believe in, and I will not compromise. As you say, the majority of people absent mindedly or subconsciously brings about the parental daddy state because the majority of people want that (there are examples in this thread). You see that in the irrational reactionism we have every time there is a crisis (The BBC is such a fantastic example of this, I think it goes a great way to explaining the UK as it exists today). That doesn't mean I have to accept an actor in the parental role's assumed authority over me though, and it doesn't make it right for them to assume that just because most people want that authority held over them, that all should have it forced upon them.
Going back to a thread in the serious forum which I can't remember what it was about, Spec and Nexxo were on opposite ends of the argument and I'm curious to get an answer from you both here.... I agree that Joe Schmo gets the governance he asks for. However, I don't and I suspect neither do you two. So - with that in mind, what is the answer to the problem? Chicken, or egg? Or something else.....?
