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Graphics 5870 or wait for Fermi?

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by klutch4891, 11 Oct 2009.

  1. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    I'd wait a few months and see if Nvidia even does anything. If they do release the Fermi, then all the better, prices will drop.
     
  2. gavomatic57

    gavomatic57 Minimodder

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    There are no DX11 games out and there are even fewer on the horizon than there was for DX10, so I'd personally buy another DX10 part until we can see how well the 5870 and Fermi handle DX11. Don't get me wrong, as soon as the new S.T.A.L.K.E.R. game comes out I'll be getting a DX11 card, but that won't be until the new year.
     
  3. Kyocera

    Kyocera The Garden of Evil

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    Buy yourself the 5870x2.
    you'll solve almost all dilemmas.
    For Fermi you'll have to wait till March (if you don't want to overpay).
     
  4. AndyDEL

    AndyDEL What's a Dremel?

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    I would personally wait...

    I seriously doubt you’ll see anything from Nvidia till February on the high end side – that being cards available to buy in mass.. You may see a release – then some small batches rear their head.. But forgetting some of the fodder sites like semi accurate etc.. It’s no secret that they’re quite far off their Q4 2009 release target.

    But on the plus side, by the time Nvidia come to market, we’ll have the 5870x2 aswell.. Under the assumption that Nvidia cards compete with the 5xxx series on some level, you’ll most definitely see a price drop from ATi, not monumental, but around £50 across the board i reckon.

    Now onto the more worrying part – i really don’t think Nvidia are going to compete this time around.. I’m very much like most people, i read reviews on bit-tech and then based on those reviews i’ll buy a graphics card.. Nvidia or ATi, i have no preference. Bit-tech test these things for a living essentially, so the most sensible way to spend my money is by taking their advise. So i’m not a fanboy in any sense..

    Nvidia have been concentrating a great deal on their mobile graphics recently – which i find odd so close to a major release of their mid to high end graphics cards... No doubt that Nvidia mobile graphics tech is very good – and they’re laying the groundwork to be incredibly dominate in that area. But things have not been to rosey for them otherwise..

    - Leaks of poor fabrication
    - Word of them exiting the mid to high end market
    - Fake GFX card shown at event

    Now i’ve no doubt some of the above three is either absolute cack or part truth.. But one thing i’ve noticed, is that Nvidias stock has reacted to this over the last month.. Which is unusual since the source of 2 of the stories is some raving anti nvidia looney – albeit occasionally on the money with his stories. Stock doesn’t tend to react that way to those sorts of people though..

    Think another worrying part is that the 5xxx series has received some very high praised – not just for the performance but on power consumption and thermal performance. They really hitting every mark, not only that but the 5850 is priced quite reasonably for a brand new card.

    Another problem would be that them showing off the card was an attempt to take some shine off ATi and the 5xxx series and build up chatter about GT3xx cards. Nvidia are well and truely on the offensive to stop people buying into ATi until they’re ready to release their cards, pretty standard marketing stuff.. But everything so far has been overwhelmingly negative, and to add to that so far we’ve seen no leaked benchmarks.. Which you’d expect around now, even if from a predominately anti ATI / pro nvidia site / journalist.. Which would either suggest Nvidia are still a way off or that the cards aren’t as good as originally touted.

    What you should hope for is Nvidia come out with some great cards – because otherwise it makes a price war less of a reality. But for me personally, all signs are pointing to the GT3xx series being a disappointment.
     
  5. numanoid

    numanoid Minimodder

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    i cant see all the fuss realy, i heard nvidia havent mentioned there new cards cos they havent got an answer to the 5870 and are struggling to try and make there card to be at least on par, but why wait when you got 5870 reviews like bit techs and this one

    http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/sapphire_hd5870/

    why even bother waiting, im just gonna buy a 5870 vapor x when it comes out,

    take care all
     
  6. Kyocera

    Kyocera The Garden of Evil

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    Nvidia needs the 28nm (or at least 32nm) to solve all the dilemmas.
    However, Ati is already preparing the completely new generation (6000), that will go on the market next year in October; 6 months after Nvidia solves the current problems...
    The battle is just ahead :D
     
  7. Paddy4929

    Paddy4929 NangO-Gamer

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    Will be buying a 5870 soon. Should nvidia make an arrival end of this year, knowing me i'll proabably flog the 5870 and go with nvidia. Always preferred them over ATI.
     
  8. AndyDEL

    AndyDEL What's a Dremel?

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    Yeah it's a shame.

    I don't want either company ever getting a big leap over the other, it's bad for the consumer. Sure one will always pip the other - but then that still leaves the avenue of competitive pricing open.. Similar with the 4xxx series - ATi were able to remain incredibly competitive pricing wise, so almost become the preferred choice i found with many of the people on here. Nvidia could never drop to that level because frankly the GT2xx series cost them far to much to manufacture.

    So again it seems ATi are leaving themselves in a powerful position - further more since the 4xxx series and it's popularity. They'll now start entering the conscious of the main stream, as they tend to lag behind.. So if you've got PCworld chappys yapping on about the 5xxx series over Nvidia, it's going to hurt them even more.

    I suppose for the moment this all remains speculative – it just seems weird that everything seems so negative at the minute for Nvidia.
     
  9. Jack_Pepsi

    Jack_Pepsi Clan BeeR Founder

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    Why so?
     
  10. unknowngamer

    unknowngamer here

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    I'm going to stick to my guess at the end of November.

    to a certain extent, weather the nivida card is better or not starts to be less important, if it shifts it'll start a pricewar.

    good eitherway.




    According to the leaks it's
    512 cores, 512-bit memory controller, 256GB/s to 280GB/s of bandwidth
    To put it into real terms the GTX285 has 240cores and 140GB/s bandwidth
    Over twice as many coes and about twice the bandwidth.

    With the 5870 getting a 50% lead over the gtx280, the specs of the 300 could give the 300 a 50% lead over the 5870.

    We don't know yet.



    Why wait?
    I keep saying November because if Nividia miss it there is no rush as they lose the chrimmy sales.
    If they get it out in Nov they're gona mint it.
    If they dont there is no rush til easter.
    Thats 6 months of lost sales.

    SO they will push to get it out soon.
    IMO


    I'll wait till Novemeber
     
  11. AndyDEL

    AndyDEL What's a Dremel?

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    If they manage to release GT3xx series in November (and high end part of the range - so one competing with 5870)... And when i say release - widely available so you can actually buy the card so nvidia can actually take advantage of christmas...........

    I'll eat my own face.
     
  12. unknowngamer

    unknowngamer here

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    It depends on who you believe and what they say.
    According to the news I've linked to, the 300 series has been built and tested.
    Had the final tweaks to be powered by a 6+6 PSU, and is now ready for production.
    it's has been set up as a 40um part, but they are trying to fab it a 32um, which is causing problems. Drivers are done and dusted.

    I'd give Nvidia a 30% chance of getting the new card out and in the shops by christmas.
    I'm not prepared to bet £250 on a 5870 being the best card in 3 months time.


    I think you'll get a few leaks the backend of this month if they plan on shipping in November.

    The usual vague benchies posted by an unknown source, Or a photo showing x/y/z.

    If there is no news in the nest few weeks the hype machine won't be able to get things into full swing for the November release I'm guessing at.


    Ultimately I'll be getting/planning a new premium GPU in 2 months time.
    At the moment it looks to be a 5870.
    But I'll not count Nvidia as out until Mid November.
     
  13. AndyDEL

    AndyDEL What's a Dremel?

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    I think it’s just the fact they showed off a fake card a week or so ago. I mean they must of known that was sailing close to the wind – especially the stuff bit-tech printed regarding it.. It just doesn’t seem like the actions of a company who is even closed to a finished article. That’s probably the major issue for me, as everything else said for and against Nvidia could just be cannon fodder as you say.

    I wish they would bring out in November – because i’ll be buying a 5870x2 or something at Christmas if it’s out.. If ATI have a clear field, there won’t be a whiff of a price cut. I just can’t see Nvidia releasing thw GT3xx series anytime before January – with February being most likely.
     
  14. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    Nvidia has thousands of engineers working... they can work on several product at the same time. And I remind you that Nvidia doesn't work on the nForce for Intel, due to legal problems with Intel (Intel being a 5 year year old kid).

    You should stop reading the inquirer and read REALLY news sites (and news sites that doesn't quote from the Inquier). The Inquier is very anti-Nvidia and anti-Microsoft. How many articles I read form them saying that "Vista is the last OS from Microsoft", "Nvidia is exiting mid to high end markets" and other junk like these. Nvidia main revenue is high end and med range market, why in the hole world they would change that?

    Granted that Nvidia had some issue with some GPU in the 8000 series for Mobiles, but as long as humans do thing, you'll always have some screws up here and there form anyone. It' snot like it's the only company that does this:
    http://consumerist.com/5376667/toyo...xus-crash-due-to-gas-pedal-stuck-on-floormats

    Frankly, I am happy that Nvidia finally screwed up several years ago, as it ensure that no further errors on quality such as these will be be released. As for companies that are so far perfect... it's a ticking bomb before something bad occurs.

    Fermi is real... its just in prototype stages and probably not in a compact form. I bet you it's on some PCB super large with wires everywhere coming out, and the small format is under some-sort of simulator on to he computer. The idea, was just to show how it it will look like at the end, else if you saw the prototype, you would be like WTF?! how is this monstrosity is supposed to fit in my my computer, how about the floating wires, etc...


    You do realize that most of investors who invest in technology company doesn't know how to turn on a computer. Already if Intel goes down, EVERY technology company goes down, as people think it's the end of the computer world... :sigh:
     
  15. AndyDEL

    AndyDEL What's a Dremel?

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    Of course - but there main concentrate - especially when it comes to press and media coverage recently - has been their mobile technology..

    You would think that a company saying they're going to release a card in mid November - they'd of created more chatter about it.. Currently the only thing we've seen / heard is a fake card shown at an event, everything else has been architecture based. Also considering ATi are soaking up sales.

    As i've said in my posts - it's either complete rubbish or some half truth.. However these stories, in particular the mid / high end market one.. Not only appeared on many other sites - but also in stock market news.

    I know it's real - but you don't show off a fake card at an event like that.. Claiming "This is it, the new card!" unless Nvidia are desperately trying to take media coverage away from ATi... It was such a terrible move - because if the card was proven to be fake (Which it was) .

    What it does is lend more credit to other more outlandish stories of the GT3xx series being seriously behind schedule. And no company takes a risk like that unless they really have nothing else to show off - because as the stock market has shown.. it's a big gamble if it goes wrong.


    lol.... errr... The stock market will ignore sites like semiaccurate... It's rumour mill and no serious investor would take it seriously - however these items will get investigated by analysts trying to predict the market. So then can then reccomend down the chain - which goes forward to the customers on what to invest in...

    In the last month Nvidia have had almost 15% off their share price - that's not a small number by any means... And at one point, it was at -20% when the bad news really started to circulate.. This could be purely down to the fake card incident and the exit from the chipset arena.. But thats a hell of a hit for any company.
     
  16. klutch4891

    klutch4891 What's a Dremel?

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    Ok, well if I was to buy a new card in the next few weeks (by 11/3 for Dragon Age) what would be the best buy for my resolution, the 275 or the 285? Because I can always upgrade my card to DX11 if I do a rebuild when tax season rolls around.
     
  17. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    Nvidia tries to kill Intel GPU market. Intel GPU's are abysmal at best, and OEM's put them in, because Intel gives them for free, as Intel doesn't want Nvidia & ATI to have a big market share in mobile systems.

    I think that Nvidia tries to achieves a surprise instead of leaking info here and there, and at the big announcement... it's like "we already mentioned everything... it has no hype now".
    Similar story occurred with the 8000 series. The card was done some time ago (well this is what internet sources says) before it's release, but in this case, Nvidia was waiting for ATI big and kick-ass promised GPU which ended up being nothing of interest. Nvidia was so tired of waiting, they just released the 8000 series before ATI, and looked to be a smart move, until ATI release a better GPU, which introduce the 8800GT to compete.
     
  18. azrael-

    azrael- I'm special...

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    You can be 100% sure, that Jen-Hsun Huang would NOT have been caught dead waving a fake card around at nVidia's very own convention if they had even close to a prototype ready at this point. If anything, he'd have shown something based on the actual enclosure/cooler used for the card. These things better be nailed down at this point.

    Alas, he WAS caught with a fake in his hands.

    That pretty much tells me not to expect anything interesting GPU-wise from nVidia for this year.

    Now, Charlie from SemiAccurate.com may have some sort of anti-nVidia agenda, and he can use very colourful language at times, but give the man some credit. His articles do have some sound reasoning behind them and he's often been right (or at least mostly right) with his predictions.

    As for nVidia trying to kill Intel's "GPU" market: Intel doesn't have a GPU market. They do however have the largest turnover of chipsets with integrated graphics. Abysmal performance, yes, but consider that the largest market for PCs built around these chips is for office use. You don't need DX11 to enter numbers into a spreadsheet.
     
  19. smc8788

    smc8788 Multimodder

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    That's just because they re-branded a load of their old G92 GPUs for the new GTX200M series and haven't had anything else to show. That doesn't mean the entire company is focussing on them right now, in fact I'm sure they've got everyone they possibly can working on Fermi. They're not just going to lie around and let ATI take all the sales.

    No. At least not until he can convince me he doesn't belong in a straight jacket.

    I don't know why everyone is putting so much emphasis on the fake card. From what I can gather, it's actually a fairly common practise. They couldn't show a real card because they didn't have one - that much obvious. It's the same reason any benchmarks haven't been leaked yet. If they had some working cards right now then I would expect them to at least have a soft launch before Xmas, which has been reported, but that remains to be seen and is irrelevant anyway because the prices will be sky high and availability next to zero.

    All that's been rumoured is Q1 2010 launch as far as I know, so if any of you have any hard evidence to the contrary then please show it. Everything else is just speculation, which is pointless because none of us have any idea of the internal workings at NVIDIA, and even if we did I doubt it would help as I don't think even they know when it's going to be released, they're just trying to get it out the door as fast as possible.
     
    GoodBytes likes this.
  20. bagman

    bagman Minimodder

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    from what i have heard about nvidia giving out infomation to me the new cards could be released any time between now and next year
     

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