1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Hardware Apple tries harder to prevent upgrades

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Claave, 16 May 2011.

  1. Hakuren

    Hakuren New Member

    Joined:
    17 Aug 2010
    Posts:
    156
    Likes Received:
    0
    I often read/watched various articles/editorials/movies from people in the West about Communism and communists/marxists type of industry. Usually all that stuff is result of some very shallow thinking by people who doesn't have a clue about living in such environment and using it purely to scare voters every time elections are near.

    And here Apple comes to the rescue. If you only read about Communism in the books then here you have absolutely glorious example of Communism.

    Worked on Macs, but I will never switch freedom and open platform of PC with Stalinist style of Apple computing. To paraphrase advert from one of German supermarkets: "Apple only for idiots!"
     
  2. Deders

    Deders Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    14 Nov 2010
    Posts:
    4,053
    Likes Received:
    106
    But they make it so easy for us
     
  3. Jehla

    Jehla Member

    Joined:
    8 Jan 2010
    Posts:
    614
    Likes Received:
    15
    :duh: You can upgrade the RAM, and from what I've read there is a second hard drive slot in the imac which accepts traditional hard drives.


    Seen the graphics card selection?


    I often don't understand apples desk top market. There is no "enthusiast" grade system, and systems start at a premium and then get very expensive when you want a little bit more storage, RAM or processing power.

    On the other hand IOS products a delight to use and competitively priced. Come on Apple, learn!
     
  4. Cei

    Cei pew pew pew

    Joined:
    22 Mar 2008
    Posts:
    4,717
    Likes Received:
    122
    Because Apple don't want "enthusiasts" as users, because as this topic demonstrably shows, enthusiasts are dicks who are never happy with what a company releases.

    Apple sell their machines to those who couldn't give a toss about replacing the HD, upgrading the GPU or whatnot. They sell them to people who just want to use the computer, not have it open on their desk with the bits hanging out. The long and short is that Apple will never appeal to the Bit Tech crowd, which is why Apple news topics on here turn into flamebait within thirty seconds.

    Apple have a different market, and it works for them (and their users, who are generally very very happy with their machines). Yes they make massive profits, and you pay out through the nose, but if you don't want to buy one, don't!
     
  5. lamboman

    lamboman New Member

    Joined:
    25 Jul 2006
    Posts:
    1,509
    Likes Received:
    28
    Actually, you'll find the typical Apple customer does know at least a little about computers, enough to know that they want a bigger hard drive etc. Usually they are the type that can follow instructions and at least do a basic upgrade.

    Sent from my Desire HD
     
  6. Jehla

    Jehla Member

    Joined:
    8 Jan 2010
    Posts:
    614
    Likes Received:
    15
     
  7. leveller

    leveller Yeti Sports 2 - 2011 Champion!

    Joined:
    1 Dec 2009
    Posts:
    1,107
    Likes Received:
    24
    I've got a 2TB HDD and a 250GB SSD in my (last gen) iMac ... I know this will be perfect for the duration I have it. When I had my Mac Mini I upgraded it's RAM and HDD and I learnt the next time to buy exactly what I would need long term because it just wasn't worth the headache and sweats trying to open the box and not damage the casing.

    For me, the iMac is a great piece of kit - tidy, clever and capable and I do all my day-to-day work on it. After a couple of years I think my Win7 rig will have cost me more than the iMac because I like to have a great gaming machine with enthusiast components.

    Horses for courses.
     
  8. Showerhead

    Showerhead New Member

    Joined:
    11 Jan 2010
    Posts:
    1,110
    Likes Received:
    33
    Is the cooling fan really necessary just cut the cables to it or splice a resistor into it's circuit or does that require gutting the machine?
     
  9. shanky887614

    shanky887614 New Member

    Joined:
    13 May 2009
    Posts:
    203
    Likes Received:
    0
    if you like the look of an imac, buy one that is broken rip out internals replace with pc, install mac os, and your done
     
  10. azazel1024

    azazel1024 New Member

    Joined:
    3 Jun 2010
    Posts:
    487
    Likes Received:
    10
    Just like having to go to the dealership to buy a part for your car. At least you can generally replace the part yourself if you care to, without having to pay dealership markup labor prices.

    I have my own heavy biasis, but I've always hated manufacturers trying to make your life as difficult as possible if you ever choose to either A) Use the product you purchased from them in a manner other than what it was designed for or B) Attempt to force you to go back to them if the product either ever broke or else your requirements later changed and you needed to increase the performance of the product (new HDD, new video card, etc).

    I don't however mean that due to its nature it is difficult or impossible for the end-user to modify, change, replace, etc. I mean I find it abhorant when the manfacturer spends time, energy, effort, thought to intentionally make it difficult (special screws, proprietary connectors no one else uses, special hardware firmware that is inentional different to make anything else incompatible).

    However, so long as you know that is what you are getting in to when buying the product to begin with, well...there it is. Its not something I would ever buy in to however as the entire mentality behind it is foreign to me.

    Frankly, with Apple, I am suprised that there isn't hardware based protection so that only peripherials sold by Apple can be used on them. You know, hardware based encryption for USB drives and sticks so that only Apple external drives and thumb sticks can be used on Apple computers. You know, for the users protection and all that. Of course, it does cost a bit more to implement this you know. Or only Apple keyboards and mice. Gotta protect the user experience here. Who knows what kind of shody manufacturing exists outside of our ecosphere.

    Maybe you can only connect your computer to an Apple approved/designed/sold electrical outlet after that. And that outlet better be connected to Apple mains wiring, and don't forget about the Apple breaker box and Apple power grid. It just isn't going to work unless it is connected to that 4 phase 73hz 160v Apple power grid. Don't want to spoil the user exerience by possibly introducing anyone else's shoddy power grid in to the equation.

    I'll have to say, my Dad is an Apple Fanboi through and through (after years of hating them). iMac, iPad II, Mac book, iPhone, the whole nine yards. He constantly complains about Apple service (costing an arm and both legs) and how hard Apple makes it to replace anything (decided to replace the drive in his Mac Book with a Momentus XT 500GB, you know because he doesn't want to feel like he has to replace his hardware every 2yrs, just maybe some upgrades to make it relevant longer). Yet, it "just works" and he loves the design.

    Just don't bring up all the issues he's had with various bits of hardware and software in polite conversation when he says "it just works".
     
  11. bobwya

    bobwya Custom PC Migrant

    Joined:
    3 May 2009
    Posts:
    193
    Likes Received:
    1
    I recently tried to fix an old iMac for a friend. This had a 700Mhz PowerPC CPU, in a circular motherboard (yeh I kid you not!!), in the base of the monitor stand. You couldn't power up the machine without connecting the motherboard (fixed to the base) to another (connector in the upper part of the base). Couldn't boot into Spinrite because of the stupid Apple EFI BIOS - that I couldn't even access. The harddrive was an old and hot 7200 rpm model - which was encased in a rubber sleeve (just in case it cold in the winter perhaps??) Resurrected the harddisk in a regular PC (go figure) using Spinrite but could only get the machine to boot once...

    Really what crack is Steve smoking?
     
  12. Webby63

    Webby63 New Member

    Joined:
    7 Mar 2011
    Posts:
    34
    Likes Received:
    0
    What a surprise :)
     
  13. Ficky Pucker

    Ficky Pucker I

    Joined:
    9 Jul 2009
    Posts:
    1,591
    Likes Received:
    95
  14. Farfalho

    Farfalho New Member

    Joined:
    27 Nov 2009
    Posts:
    424
    Likes Received:
    2
    As Flibblebot says, that costs you an extra £200, so let's do the math:

    I have a Zalman GS1000 and two hot swappable bays, one hot swap pcb included.
    So I have to buy a second one, ok, that's a 35€ top. Now I have a hot swap pcb, install it with screws, plug 3 sata cables, 2 molex cables. So far, so good, I have the ability to hot swap ready!

    Now let's buy a 2TB 3Gb/s HDD, let's use the £56.34 price tag, that's about 60-ish €. Already have a drive caddy, install the HDD in it, open the lid, insert the HDD, make sure it's connected when a click sounds, close lid. Start up the pc and initialize the HDD. Presto!

    So about a 100€ price tag, below £100 to have a 2TB HDD and hot-swappable.
    Get a grip really!

    Apple is literally pulling ideas from its brain through its ass. May I bless the PC and purge the world from Apple. Amen to me

    http://img001.groups.im/pic/G/2011/05/16/ff8080812fe77094012ffa5e3cb03cc7.JPG
     
  15. Volund

    Volund Am I supposed to care?

    Joined:
    16 Sep 2008
    Posts:
    1,947
    Likes Received:
    65
    and apple is sure as hell getting everything for cheaper than you or I would, just because of volume.
     
  16. samkiller42

    samkiller42 For i AM Cheesecake!!

    Joined:
    25 Apr 2006
    Posts:
    6,486
    Likes Received:
    140
    I love my 2009 iMac, Sheer simplicity. But this news has brought the look of wtf to my face.

    Apple sure do do things differently.

    Sam
     
  17. l3v1ck

    l3v1ck Fueling the world, one oil well at a time.

    Joined:
    23 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    12,945
    Likes Received:
    17
    I'd never buy an Apple for this very reason. It's my PC and I'll do what I want with it.
     
  18. DatenThielt

    DatenThielt New Member

    Joined:
    4 Dec 2009
    Posts:
    55
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here is some facts :) , I work for an apple authorised repair centre (Esher,Surry),
    1. The fans get that fast because if you have ever touched the back of an Imac 21.5-27 inch then you will know it can actually burn, And that's the power supplies fault, (Surprisingly the rest of the components don't get anywhere near as hot).
    2. A normal HDD can cost you as stated well over £200 the normal asking price, But you have to add VAT and Labour on top of that (Lab can be 45-70), AND Until they release Lion, Mac OSX 10.6< Does not support Trim so the £500 you spend on an SSD from apple that will last you 5 - 9 months is wasted, There is a second space ONLY in the Imac 27 inch that supports a standard Sata connection but if you dont have the Temperature sensor (That is build into the HDD Firmware) You will get the fan speed at top speed AND it will still fail the ASD.

    P.S I work as an ACMT But I dont support Apples ethics at all.
    P.P.S Need mac hardware info or help , msg me :D
     
  19. slothy89

    slothy89 MicroModder

    Joined:
    17 Feb 2011
    Posts:
    145
    Likes Received:
    5
    well actually... Apple DOES have an "enthusiast" grade system. It's called the MacPro and comes in a full tower case. And if I recall contains all desktop hardware. You can even get it watercooled!! Not that Apple allow overclocking tho...
    But even then every part has been proprietised to some degree to prevent unsolicited upgrades. You might be able to change the RAM and HDD but that's it. The graphics are special Apple design.

    Oh and these MacPro's cost US$3.5k just for the base model..
    US$2k would get you an insane Wintel gaming rig which you could upgrade in yrs time..

    Someone did a breakdown of the cost of a base model iMac on a previous article here at bit-tech and found that straight off the shelf theres only a very small markup on the parts you're getting. No more than 5%
    where the overpriced bit comes in is when you want to get more of something. Eg to go from 4gb ram to 8 will cost you more than a full 16gb from an e-tailer.

    Apple has gone bonkers...
     
    Last edited: 16 May 2011
  20. veato

    veato I should be working

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2010
    Posts:
    732
    Likes Received:
    55
    1) the hdd in the iMac was never that upgradable before this anyway. You have to AFAIK take the glass panel off the front which isn't easy or something I'd expect your average iMac buyer wants to do

    2) warranty repairs I'd let Apple do anyway for free (sale of goods act beyond the first year)

    3) future expansion if required can be enabled via external thunderbolt drives

    With that said its the kind of thing I expect from Apple to keep everything in house and nice and pricey. I'm not sure what all the talk of SATA 4 pin power connectors is all about tho. SATA has never had 4pin power has it?

    I am amused at the anti-imac comments tho. I've got a 27" IPS 2560x1440 monitor with a sandy bridge 3.1ghz, 8gb RAM and a 6790M (near as damn it a 6850) for no real extra cost than what it would cost a 'real' pc of the same spec. Not bad for a toy ;)
     
Tags: Add Tags

Share This Page