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Hardware Apple tries harder to prevent upgrades

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Claave, 16 May 2011.

  1. Guinness

    Guinness New Member

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    I cant comment on how much you paid, but a 27" iMac with an Intel Core i5 3.1GHz with HD 6970M, 4Gb RAM and a 1TB HDD currently retails at £1649.00

    Bittech's Gaming Workhorse system (minus the SSD)    £815    (maybe a 6950 2gb for an extra £10 - softmod anyone?)
    Dell 27" IPS    £666
    Windows 7 64bit HP    £60.00    (why Pro?)
    Logitech webcam    <£15    (really?)
    Cheapy speakers    <£20
    Decent mouse+keyboard combo    £50
    Total:    £1636

    Factor in even a mild overclock and it would tear the iMac a new one.  How do you them them Apples? :D
     
  2. veato

    veato I should be working

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    Home edition would not be equivalent to OS X

    Cheapy speakers/cam dont reflect the spec of those included with the Mac so nowhere near like for like

    No delivery charges (build or support I dont worry about either)

    Mac was just over £1400 too (your parts aren't RRP and mine aren't either)

    "tearing a new one" was never disputed either. I said an almost identical spec self build PC costs around the same.
     
  3. iggy

    iggy Active Member

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    mwaaaaah
     
  4. wuyanxu

    wuyanxu still wants Homeworld 3

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    :thumb:

    mwaaaah you ninja edited!
     
  5. hexx

    hexx New Member

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    so everybody who cries here has got **** all to do with it, aren't you all PC users btw???
     
  6. Guinness

    Guinness New Member

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    The fact remains that at current retail prices, a 27" iMac with an Intel Core i5 3.1GHz with HD 6970M, 4Gb RAM and a 1TB HDD is £1649.

    Tot up the kit Scan/Overclocker/Ebuyer. Include yourself copy of Windows 7 Pro, a fancy webcam and some dishy speakers. Add delivery. How far do you come in under £1650?

    "An almost identical self build" will currently save you lots of money!


    But.... for arguments sake lets say they did cost the same, you still face the issue we are discussing here. Apple are trying their best to prevent expansion or upgrade.

    Dont think I'm Apple bashing here. Any all-in-one PC, regardless of brand, faces the same limited expansion and upgradeability. Its just worse with apple for the reasons stated in the article (and many of the above comments).  As an enthusiast I would never choose or recommend one.
     
  7. veato

    veato I should be working

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    I never once argued against all-in-ones having limited expansion and upgradability!

    (P.S. for arguments sake I've still yet to see [as I showed with Bits Enthusiast PC+U2711+extras] the same spec as the iMac including monitor and quality peripherals for considerably cheaper)
     
  8. ferret141

    ferret141 Well-Known Member

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    Vive la IBM PC!
     
    javaman likes this.
  9. Bakes

    Bakes New Member

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    I totally agree. Apple are doing a good job on making their devices competitive - long gone are the days when £1500 would by you a PC that could be bought for £800.
     
  10. metarinka

    metarinka New Member

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    I own an apple laptop, there is definitely a price premium, but i've been extremely happy with it.

    like any sane bit-techer, I built myself a pc gaming rig and would never go mac for a desktop.
     
  11. Guinness

    Guinness New Member

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    The trouble is... that Bittech Enthusiast system you keep quoting is comprised of good quality enthusiast level hardware with overclocking in mind (3.3GHz K-series Core i5, modular power supply, aftermarket cpu cooler etc). It is not comparable to your iMac!

    Courtesy of Scan (other etailers are available!):
    Dell 27" IPS    £665.12
    Intel Core i5 2400 3.1GHz    £142.98
    Asus P8H61-M    £57.13    (no overclocking)
    Corsair PC3-12800 4GB    £39.74
    MSI 6850 OC    £125.62
    Samsung F3 1TB HDD   £39.53
    Corsair CX430 PSU   £35.32
    Antec One Hundred case   £41.27
    Keysonic KSK-8020HM keyboard   £29.98
    Microsoft InteliMouse    £16.16
    Creative T10 2.0 speakers    £32.04
    Logitech 1080p webcam    £64.79
    Windows 7 HP    £70.88
    Delivery    £20.00
    Total    £1397.71

    So including an OS, a nice set of speakers, a 1080p webcam, an alu keyboard, a decent mouse and delivery you still save over £250 compared to the current retail cost of the 27" iMac!
     
  12. veato

    veato I should be working

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    MS Intellimouse versus Magic Mouse? You're having a laugh! And the OS is still HP??

    With those ignored though it's still proved my point for me! You're now only £80 less than what I paid for the iMac. So considering it fits my needs, I don't have to build or support it, comes with a great software package and no AV is required the iMac is good value in the like-for-like comparison.
     
  13. fingerbob69

    fingerbob69 Member

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    Until you want to upgrade it, at which point an hdd upgrade, for example, will cost you somewhere north of £200 over an equivelent non-Apple hdd ...and you'll have to get an offical repairer to do it for you.

    Oh, and that 27" screen comes in glossy only so I hope you like your reflection.
     
  14. veato

    veato I should be working

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    JFC

    How many times do I have to say it. i KNOW the iMac is not upgradable. I am purely talking about the cost difference between buying a new PC (self build) and equivalent iMac, which as shown above by another poster at most comes to (from what I paid) £80 difference - although you could still argue over spec of mouse, etc and the perceived value in having support, free delivery and not having to build.

    At no point have I ever said an iMac is upgradable. In fact I've said quite the opposite.
     
  15. Deders

    Deders Well-Known Member

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    Where's the fun in that?
     
  16. Guinness

    Guinness New Member

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    MS Intellimouse versus Magic Mouse? You're having a laugh! And the OS is still HP??

    With those ignored though it's still proved my point for me! You're now only £80 less than what I paid for the iMac. So considering it fits my needs, I don't have to build or support it, comes with a great software package and no AV is required the iMac is good value in the like-for-like comparison.[/QUOTE]

    On the topic of operating system, since no Windows OS is directly comparable to OS X I see no point in wasting money on the extra "Pro" features that wont be used. I assume CustomPC mag only recommends Home Premium for the very same reason, even on its Elite build.

    I'm glad it suits your needs. But I'm not disputing how suitable the system is for you. I am, however, disputing your claim that an iMac offers good value for money in comparison to like-for-like a self build.
    It may not be good value compared to what you paid for you iMac. But what you paid is totally irrelevant for everyone else. If you got a good deal then whoopee for you! But it will currently cost anyone £1649.00.

    So at CURRENT RETAIL PRICES (to avoid confusion: the prices you can currently purchase these products at from Apple and Scan/Ebuyer/Overclocks etc), the iMac does NOT represent good value in a like-for-like comparison with a self build.

    This is all the more apparent when you consider the kind of system you could build (including a pointlessly expensive webcam and peripherals) for £1650. And to hammer the point of this article home, most PC users could UPGRADE their current system, re-using key components and saving money.
     
  17. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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    The issue with Macs is not just the initial price (which is pretty low in UK btw, in germany the same model is 1649 euros and here in Slovakia it's even more), but the upgrade prices. You can't put any ordinary stuff in mac, you need to buy "Apple" stuff. Do you want a SSD ? You can't have one, unless you buy the apple one. It's just a 500€ extra for a 256GB drive, on top of 60€ price of 1TB HDD drive. You can get a Vertex 3 for that price, and you can bet SSD from Apple will have inferior specs compared to Vertex 3. Same in case of memory upgrade,...
     
  18. fingerbob69

    fingerbob69 Member

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    "At no point have I ever said an iMac is upgradable." ...which for a computer is a useful and good thing to be!

    Apple are a hardware vendor, not a software vendor. This is a first attempt to close off a route by which Apple customers can buy hardware outside Apple's wall paradise.

    Just wait til Thunderbolt becomes the sole means of connecting peripherals.
     
  19. Cei

    Cei pew pew pew

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    If you're buying an all-in-one, I think you're accepting a lack of upgradability compared to a tower, no matter if you're buying an Apple, Sony, Lenovo or whatever. Some people don't care about being able to stick in a new GPU - my mum for example wouldn't know what a GTX 560Ti was if it was right in front of her, much less how to install one.

    Apple are hardware and software. Pretty hard to claim they don't make software when they make a major OS for computers, another major OS for phones/tablets, professional and consumer level video/photography/music/coding software (FCP, Aperture, Logic, Xcode, iLife), industry-wide software platforms (QuickTime) and office tools (iWork).

    As for Thunderbolt becoming the only I/O? Even Apple aren't that silly. They'll keep USB, audio ports etc.
     
  20. veato

    veato I should be working

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    Yes it does. A build would have cost me the same (or £80 less) and would not do anything more for me than the iMac does. Yet with the iMac I get the added value of small footprint, quiet, etc but lose out on upgradability which I don't want/need.
     
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