1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Motors Bit-Tech F1 2017 thread - Season Complete

Discussion in 'General' started by RedFlames, 27 Nov 2016.

  1. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2010
    Posts:
    5,013
    Likes Received:
    377
    Had Vettel backed out even the slightest bit then Bottas would have gotten ahead, so it was pretty much lose lose no matter what Vettel did.
     
  2. David

    David RIP Tel

    Joined:
    7 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    13,226
    Likes Received:
    2,203
    I loved the wheel to wheel with Alonso - great driving.

    I also agree with Alonso in that Hamilton's fourth WDC is a greater achievement than Vettel's.
     
  3. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    6,859
    Likes Received:
    247
    Hamilton was ahead, sure. But also on outside lane, and it is pretty common for cars at start, with cold tyres to have understeering problems. Which is why Vettel hit Hamilton, who as i said, was optimistic in hoping Vettel won't make a mistake.
     
  4. CrapBag

    CrapBag Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    17 Jul 2008
    Posts:
    7,309
    Likes Received:
    310
    I agree the guy is the most complete driver ever, can't say I particularly like him personally but his achievements say it all.
     
  5. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

    Joined:
    10 May 2009
    Posts:
    3,406
    Likes Received:
    72
    Not the first time Vettel has ran into Hamilton this season. Hit Verstappen first fair enough for a mistake but there is no excuse for accelerating straight into the back of Hamilton immediately after. Remember vettel this isn't a rookie like Stroll or in a car with no brakes like Grosjean, he is a 4 time world champion. It's like the Vettel of old has re-emerged and in my mind now needs to prove himself again in wheel to wheel racing at the front.

    Disappointed for Hulkenberg and the TR's. Really want to see who is better between Hartley and Gastly. Both are impressive. Plenty of great drives as already mentioned.
     
  6. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

    Joined:
    23 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    11,217
    Likes Received:
    1,355
    Kinda hope for McLaren's sake [and RBR too] that Renault get their **** together on the reliability front. I know we're at the tail end of the season but there was a lot of Renault lumps letting go over the weekend.
     
  7. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    You can say the same about Schumacher. He never had the greatest personality, although he was certainly "nicer" than Ham, but on the track and to the Ferrari 2nd drivers certainly more ruthless.
     
  8. BentAnat

    BentAnat Software Dev

    Joined:
    26 Jun 2008
    Posts:
    7,143
    Likes Received:
    194
    Vettel-Hailton contact was a bit misjudged by Vettel, that's all.
    Honestly, Lewis was ahead, Seb had front wing damage at the time already (which could well have caused some understeer there) and he pushed, trying to go down Lewis's inside.
    Similarly, Lewis was perhaps a bit optimistic thinking he can make that move stick without Seb fighting back.
    I'd call that a racing incident. And while I am a bit disappointed that Lewis couldn't have the opportunity to hammer home the WDC in style, it is what it is.

    I really enjoyed Alonso racing with lewis, as well as his words after the race. "He knows I am still here." - that was well worth.
     
  9. David

    David RIP Tel

    Joined:
    7 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    13,226
    Likes Received:
    2,203
    TBH, the fact that both Hamilton and Vettel were throwing caution to the wind warmed my heart - No tiptoeing around too frightened to commit. I think the idea that Vettel intended wipe his end plates off with Hamilton's tyre is ludicrous. It was just, slightly clumsy, hard racing.

    Verstappen was sublime.
     
  10. Ending Credits

    Ending Credits Bunned

    Joined:
    4 Jan 2008
    Posts:
    5,234
    Likes Received:
    210
    If only his car would work more often.
     
  11. legoman

    legoman breaker of things

    Joined:
    28 Feb 2010
    Posts:
    3,677
    Likes Received:
    335
    Watched the highlights, id say the Vettel-Hamiltion incident is a racing incident nothing more, Verstappen was brilliant to watch showed he knows his craft, Alonso to was great to watch him dicing with Hamilton showing the non engine upgrades they bolted on have made a difference.
    I doubt the PU update they are planning on next race will do much but the Renault unit next season coupled with what appears to be a very dialled in car could be a great package especially so with Alonso at the helm.

    Also, Toto coming out with some funny comments for a change this one about Eccestone

     
    Last edited: 30 Oct 2017
  12. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

    Joined:
    10 May 2009
    Posts:
    3,406
    Likes Received:
    72
  13. legoman

    legoman breaker of things

    Joined:
    28 Feb 2010
    Posts:
    3,677
    Likes Received:
    335
    Proposed FIA changes to engines, not totally sure what to make as yet

    • a 1.6-litre V6 turbo hybrid.
    • Engines running 3,000rpm faster to improve sound.
    • The removal of the MGU-H, the part of the hybrid system that recovers energy from the turbo and which is largely responsible for muting the sound made by the current engines.
    • A more powerful MGU-K - which recovers energy from the rear axle - to make up the loss in hybrid energy from the MGU-H and with the option for a driver to save up energy over a number of laps to add a tactical element to the racing.
    • A single turbo with constraints on dimensions and weight.
    • Standard battery and control electronics.
    • Research into tightening up fuel regulations
     
  14. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

    Joined:
    23 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    11,217
    Likes Received:
    1,355
    I'm fairly pleased... It certainly could've been worse...

    +3000 rpm takes them to what? 18k rpm maximum?

    the MGU-H seemed to be the common cause of engine failure/penalties... beefing up the MGU-K to compensate seems sensible...

    Standardised parts helps the smaller, broker, teams who can't afford to splash out on designing their own and were probably buying them off a larger team anyway.


    'Tightening up fuel regs' could mean anything... are they limiting tank capacity/fuel flow further? are they clamping down on burnin oil with/as fuel as some teams were reported to be doing in qualy... both... neither...


    Translation: Ferrari can't get the MGU-H to work properly so the FIA are axing it :p
     
  15. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

    Joined:
    10 May 2009
    Posts:
    3,406
    Likes Received:
    72
    Disappointed MGU-H is dropped tho with number of failures I guess it makes sense. It seemed to help not only add piwer but increase thermal efficiency. Would love to see them standardise the whole engine then pick an area of development for manufactures to differentiate.
    Although they performed poorly I would like to see 3rd party solutions like cosworth and Mechachrome enter again where a base engine is bought and tuned rather than the strangle the current suppliers have.

    The tightening of fuel based on another source seems to be "limiting the number of fuel options". I guess that is fuel from one source or tight regulations on fuel composition. Still could be open as these seem to be suggestions at this point.

    Like the idea of MGUK being manually deployed and storage can happen over multiple laps for more tactical approach. Could mean the end DRS but still a push to overtake button.

    I guess there is a lot of potential for the rules to go either way in terms of improving racing vs another reshuffle causing another team to dominate for 4 more years
     
  16. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    4 Jul 2011
    Posts:
    3,585
    Likes Received:
    314
    It's more to do with the effect the MGU-H has on engine noise than anything, but it's also something that has no real relevance to a road car. Since it's parasiting power from the turbo then dumping it back into the impeller to prevent turbo lag it absorbs a lot of the sound by slowing down the exhaust gas even more than a normal turbo does. Road cars already dodge turbo lag with twin turbos in various arrangements, but that's banned in F1.

    It might make the cars have a narrower power band, but I wouldn't expect that to be the case from Mercedes (live in hope for twitchy cars).

    The rev limit change makes no difference. The cars are now limited to 15'000 but rarely go over 11'000 for temperature, wear and fuel flow reasons.

    Given them more engines, get rid of the fuel flow limit entirely (but not the total fuel limit) and even the current engines would be much louder. But the FIA seem obsessed with the fuel flow limit, even though it's dumb.
     
  17. wolfticket

    wolfticket Downwind from the bloodhounds

    Joined:
    19 Apr 2008
    Posts:
    2,887
    Likes Received:
    208
    Fuel flow limits peak power, total fuel doesn't.
    Some method of limiting peak power in F1 is something that's pretty much always been around. Fuel flow is just the latest, and is necessary given the potential peak performance of the current power units. 1500bhp push to pass for a second or two might be exciting, but it really isn't acceptable from a safety point of view. And that's the sort of thing that would be possible with a total fuel limit but no max fuel flow limit.
     
  18. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun.

    Joined:
    5 Dec 2011
    Posts:
    4,150
    Likes Received:
    893
    "option for a driver to save up energy over a number of laps to add a tactical element to the racing"

    I don't like the sound of that. Say a driver is on it on a given weekend, gets pole, get a good start and pulls ahead and gets a nice gap (which seems to happen more often than not at the minute). They can then relax and charge the batteries to their hearts content, knowing that if someone behind them gets something going after the pit stops on different tyres, that they have a big reserve in additional power to keep them at bay.
     
  19. BentAnat

    BentAnat Software Dev

    Joined:
    26 Jun 2008
    Posts:
    7,143
    Likes Received:
    194
    I mean - that "save some for later" doesn't sound THAT much different to KERS, TBH.

    I am a bit bitter about the MGU-H being dropped. I thought that was a cool "engineering challenge" to things.
    The RPM limit is meaningless unless it comes with different fuel regs. As was pointed out, the teams mostly run 11K RPM at the moment, even though they are allowed to do more. So I think the extra 3K RPM won't have MUCH of a sound impact.
     
  20. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    Save to deploy later is fine by me. Stops it becoming repetitive at the same place every lap and adds a tactical element.
    What's the point of a 15k limit when there's fuel flow limit anyway. Like said, the electrical power adds enough torque out of corners to not need peak revs.

    The new things look sensible. Standard battery and control is a bit of a shame if you think how much successive development on that could benefit EV/hybrid road cars but it's understandable given the cost of development is already too high. F1 will one day have to accept it's just not the formula used for development anymore: Formula E is. Once it embraces just being 'the fastest/grandest' it'll be better for it.
     

Share This Page