E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

With the current system yes, but since we are talking hypothetical change from FPTP to Proportional Representation might as well go the whole way and improve some other aspects as well

 

Cool, here's my suggestion: everybody who comes of voting age needs to pass a citizenship exam to acquire voting rights. This means demonstrating understanding of the history and functioning of government, understanding the principles of democracy and civilsed society, demonstrating the ability to critically read tabloids and newspapers and demonstrating a reasonable awareness of current affairs.

Democracy is a contract between the electorate and government to run the country together. That requires both sides to be wise, informed and act in the communal interest.

 

2015:
DUP 8 Seats 184k votes
Green 1 Seat 1.1m votes
UKIP 1 Seat 3.9m votes

Yeah it's unfair. What replaces

Good luck finding agreement on what looks like a fair exam paper.

It's back to Churchill: the worst system of government apart from all the others that have been tried...........

 

Exam papers on philosophy, political sciences and law are drawn up without too much controversy every day.

There was a time when Victorian medicine was better than shamanism. Doesn't mean it couldn't do with improvement. Same with democratic government.

 

Not sure but i'm trying to think when the last time a Government was put in place with >50% of the vote.

We generally get governed by a party that doesn't garner the support of the majority .

At least in PR systems the combined parties represent more than half of the voters.

 

We definitely shouldn't switch to PR without the civics exam

While they're off to a rocky start, I'm sure the Tories are seeing the "advantages" to the same single-issue politics that allow DUP and Sinn Fein to come out on top every single time. I wouldn't put it past them to keep us in a perpetual state of crisis.

What we really need is the Greens to be slightly less nice, principled people for a while to get in power.

 

Has this been shared yet?

 

They haven't, TY.

Although i get the feeling he's preaching to the choir as from what i can tell most leave voters have completely switch off and most remain voters are pretty aware trading under WTO terms is the worst of all worlds, why have free trade agreements if it wasn't.

What amazed me the other day was hearing self confessed leave voters on the TV saying how they'd prefer the WTO option so we could sell things to the rest of the world instead of just Europe, they actually thought Europe stopped us selling things to the RoW.

 

I doubt anything short of turning into somewhere like Yemen would convince them to admit they were wrong.

My favourite so far is a Tory councillor said he voted leave so that we would invest more in infrastructure, roads, rails, bridges etc.
When asked why the EU was preventing this he didn’t really answer then went onto give France as an example of good infrastructure.

 

I guess we don't need "idiots" voting but wouldn't there be a bias towards those who have been educated well or have the luxury of time?
Maybe tying it to being eligible for an NI number? Make it part of the curriculum and you can't join the world of work till you've passed the Society and Politics exam. You can always opt out by ultimately not voting but at least you're informed.

Then again the masses are easier to control when they're blissfully ignorant of the system.

 

I think a better option would be to employ people who can dedicate their entire time to educating themselves on worldly affairs, maybe these people can make decisions for the rest of us who are to busy with day-to-day life to learn all about complex issues...Oh, wait!

EDIT: The UK’s former representative to the EU, Sir Ivan Rogers spoke at the invitation of the University of Liverpool recently, the full transcript is a long but worthy read IMO, not that any leave supports will pay attention.

 

Labour just launched a vote of no confidence.

What actual consequences have come from contempt of Parliament though? I can't see any.

 

Labour's 'no confidence' motion is ultimately a political stunt not worth the paper it's printed on as it's a motion of no confidence in May.

For it to have any procedural weight and actual consequences it needs to be [a very specifically worded] motion of no confidence in the government.

As for the contempt motion, the government would argue that the consequence was them publishing the advice.

IIRC the most the would've come of it had they not, would've been a couple of MPs being suspended from the commons for a month or so.

 

Oh is it just in May?

What's the point of that? Nothing will happen. FFS it's a House of fools.

 

Evergreen question.

 

Via ITV's Robert Peston -

This is potentially more significant... if true.

Allow a, procedurally, meaningless [if embarrassing] NC motion in May, or risk the actually meaningful NC motion in the govt as a whole.

 

Some would call it playing games although i suspect it's designed to weaken May even further and lay the ground work for a possible VonC in the government.

 

That is precisely what the DUP calls it... and they will not help Corbyn (for now):
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...k-corbyns-move-to-oust-pm-dodds-37636072.html

 

I do not believe that Jermey has the balls to do that, he is nothing if not fond of prevaricating.

Meanwhile Mogg is now declaring his undying loyalty to the Prime Minister and saying it's the remainers who are undermining everything now, presumably so he can maintain the stalemate into the christmas break and get himself another month closer to his no deal dream.

 

Rees-Mogg said he wouldn't do anything that would potentially jeopardise the Conservative govt [such as vote against May/the govt in a NC motion]. And most [but not all] Tory MPs likely feel the same way.

Staying in power trumps all, so expect a lot of 'Vote with May or the bogey-Corbyn will get you!' from the party whips.