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Other Hi-fi and AV junkies anonymous

Discussion in 'General' started by Mister_Tad, 16 Jun 2020.

  1. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Will work for nuts Super Moderator

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    Noice... not the overheating bit, but the 3ch NC400 bit. Most of the commercial implementations seem to heatsink rather than fan, although given you've already assembled the chassis probably easier just to add airflow, especially if it's only problematic basically once per year.

    How've you found it generally, and what speakers does it feed? I've mostly of settled on either a 3ch NC500, or maybe 3x mono NC1200s for what would hopefully transpire to be near-unlimited headroom (and the last LCR amp I'd ever need), but that means no DIY obviously. I'd prefer to have the option to DIY either of those, if nothing other than for the sake of comparison with Apollon, Nord et al. For that reasons the NC400s do still appeal.

    That said it seems like some of the "boutique" options are pretty good value.

    For your 11/12ch, are you looking at NC400s or something else? Nord's nCore-MP amps seem pretty keenly priced when you consider the costs of the raw materials, plus a nice chassis and warranty.
     
  2. Yaka

    Yaka Well-Known Member

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    honestly its better than i was expecting i this was going to be a stop gap till i could save up for a "proper" power amp like from appolon or nad but i am going the diy route.
    hypex support has been really helpfull they did mention before i built it as i was using it with three in the small ghent audio case that i may need to put vents or fan in to help with cooling.

    for the planned amp its either will be all hypex ucd400xg or ucd180xg depending on the case i can find. after that my next upgrade with be a decent audio processor

    im still puzzeled as to why processors cost more than recivers i mean they prolly cost less to make as there is no power amps built into them.
     
  3. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Will work for nuts Super Moderator

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    The NAD amps are NC400 as well AFAIK - the M22 certainly is, and I think the M27v2 as well - both on a shared power supply though I believe.

    I'm doing basically the same thing as you - slowly accumulating ~13ch of power in preparation of the next upgrade as and when. Prices for processors seem largely the same as the AVRs they're based on these days, maybe even a little cheaper. E.g. X8500 and AV8805 are largely comparable in price, the Arcam AV40 is actually £1250 cheaper than the AV30. Main gap IMO is that AV processors only exist at the top of the food chain... I think midrange processors at a £1200-1800 price point - lesser DACs, RCA-only, slimline chassis - would sell quite well. But maybe that's the precise reason they're not a thing.

    I have my heart set on a Trinnov next time around, but then that would rely on being the right place at the right time because I'm not keen on that RRP. That said, I'm struggling to think of good reasons I'd ever need to upgrade my Denon, so maybe I'll just flip it to pre-amp mode when the time comes and forget about it.

    If you put together your 11ch and want to offload that 3xNC400 before I get around to figuring out what amps I want for my LCR, you know where I am!
     
  4. Yaka

    Yaka Well-Known Member

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    interesting i always thought the m22 was nc500 based. i will be keeping these for my l/c/r (which are M&K s150s sorry forgot to mention them in my first reply) the planned 11ch is for the reaming speakers of which there are 8 but no doubt as and when i get the processor i will be adding more speakers.

    Tinnov is way way past my budget :) i had a chance of experiencing trinnov proc/amp setup but thought better of it my processor will prolly be emotiva if i could get one at the right price if not then anthem even then a 2nd hand one
     
  5. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Will work for nuts Super Moderator

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    :drool: Cracking speakers, those S150s. I've heard them a few times (once hanging off a Trinnov Alt/Amp combo, the latter of which I think is NC500), always sounded epic for movie uses. And 4ohm nominal if memory serves... won't be doing your overheating amp any favours.

    I've always had this fixation the more conventional floorstanders and matching chonky centre for some reason. My AV setup is 90% movies and something like those S150s would be perfect, yet my daydreaming mental shopping lists always seem to end up with some combination of big "statement" towers and a matching centre.

    For amps... for now I'm thinking...
    3x NC500 or NC1200 for the fronts... NC500 is probably "enough", but NC1200 removes any "what if"
    4x NC400 rear/surround
    3x NC252MP (6ch) overheads

    NAD M22 nude shot - NC400... https://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u513/Jonmarsh2012/Hypex Projects/IMG_2030_zpseuvur80u.jpg
     
    Last edited: 2 Jul 2020
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  6. hamza_tm

    hamza_tm Well-Known Member

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    Hello everyone! I’ve recently been taking baby steps into the custom audio world, and managed to snag a setup of 2x Q Acoustics 2020is, a Wharfedale SW150, and a Denon CEOL Piccolo DRA N5. Got the lot for £200 - very good condition, an old chap had bought the lot about 5 years ago and quickly upgraded to something disgusting and let these gather dust for a while. After a bit of spit n polish they’re looking good as new.

    Considering this was from a set of Logitech Z537s, you can imagine my reaction :D

    Such pleasurable audial sensations. My ears have never been so pampered.

    Although I need to check in on the bass, I feel like I haven’t quite set things up right since it’s a bit weak. I stuck a subwoofer cable from the sub out on the Denon to the left input on the sub. The sub seems to have a lot more connections though... but I’m guessing this is the right way to do it?
     
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  7. Mr_Mistoffelees

    Mr_Mistoffelees The Cat Lies Down on Broadway

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    I used to be indecisive but, now I'm not so sure...

    No longer looks possible to buy a new Pathos Aurium for under a grand so, this raises the possibility of paying not a huge amount more for a Pathos Converto MKii, then selling my M-DAC and recovering the extra dosh. Making such decisions is something my defective mind always has much difficulty with...
     
  8. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Will work for nuts Super Moderator

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    You've wired it up correctly. If bass is lacking for you I'd check the following in this order...

    1 - Bass management settings on the amp that might be messing you up
    2 - Make sure the gain setting is set appropriately - don't knock it straight up to max, but crank it up a little bit for starters.
    3 - Make sure the low-pass filter is set to the highest setting. Depending on your amp's bass management features, IMO better to leave the crossover set there instead of the sub itself.
    4 - Flip the phase dial/switch 180deg and try again.
    5 - Experiment with placement - pop it in an opposite corner for take best advantage of room reinforcement. Assuming it was set up generally correctly to start with, this is likely to make the biggest difference.


    Makes sense IMO - don't think you're even over-relying on man-maths there. Your M-DAC should fetch at least £300, and that's near-as-dammit the difference between street prices of the Converto and Aurium from what I can tell.
     
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  9. Mr_Mistoffelees

    Mr_Mistoffelees The Cat Lies Down on Broadway

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    The decision has been made, Pathos Converto MK2 it will be.

    Now the saving begins...
     
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  10. hamza_tm

    hamza_tm Well-Known Member

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    Went through this checklist, very handy thanks. I think number 5 made a difference (totally did the crawl test all around the room on all-fours lol), it's sounding better now. Still not what I was hoping for as an upgrade to my Logitechs given the size difference new sub vs old, but dunno how much of that is just mental, so I'm happy :)
     
  11. saspro

    saspro IT monkey

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    Have you tried a "sub crawl"?

    Stick the sub where you usually sit, then crawl round the room to find out where it sounds best and then put hte sub there
     
  12. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Will work for nuts Super Moderator

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    I've read in a few different places that the sub-crawl is nonsense... i.e. pseudo-science that makes sense on the surface, but no grounding at all in how room modes actually work . That said, I never took the time to either research any further or investigate practically, because effective or not, I'm not about to try to hoik my 50kg sub up to head-height on top of the sofa - so take it either way with a pinch of salt.

    I've personally used REW's room sim to experiment with (virtual) placement and help me figure out, from the limited positions available, where best to place the sub.
     
  13. saspro

    saspro IT monkey

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    It's by no means the a perfect way of doing things, but does an OK job if you don't have access to modelling tools (or don't understand absorbtion coefficients, reflection & time-delay etc).

    Sticking a little sub (usually 12" basic sealed/ported or less) on a chair and wandering around a room is certainly easier than calculating 1/4 or 1/2 wavelengths, reflections, room loading etc

    Smaller "computer" subs are designed to be very short throw (as you're more likely to throw it under your desk) and use psyco-acoustics to give a sense of bass, bigger subs need more room and can sound less bassy in placed in the same position.

    & don't forget about the 3db boost from putting it in a corner
     
  14. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Will work for nuts Super Moderator

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    Have you compared a sub-crawl to using REW (or something else similar), and come to similar conclusions?

    As I say, I've not looked into it deeply, just when figuring out where to place my own sub came across multiple suggestions of sub-crawl, followed by immediate follow-ups of why it doesn't work like that suggesting REW instead... and I favoured the effort in learning REW vs the effort of moving the sub any more than I needed to.
     
  15. saspro

    saspro IT monkey

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    I've done both before in commercial installations, and have sometimes ended up doing a crawl after putting the sub where the measurements say is best but it sounded poop.

    Simulators & plotting should always be best, the problem usually is that people all hear slightly differently so best technically isn't always what sounds best to the individual and people don't always want the best technical sound, they want what sounds best to them (and that could be booming sub rather than controlled bass with a nice roll-off).

    I think trust your ears always has to win (& unless you've get a dedicated AV room, what sounds best whilst not annoying the wife/keeping WAF as high as possible)
     
  16. hamza_tm

    hamza_tm Well-Known Member

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    Fascinating. I fancy learning more about it so I’ll read up on REW. The wife actually suggested moving my entire computer desk to an adjacent room (it’s currently in the kitchen/lounge combo which is a pretty big open space)

    The new room is much smaller, but carpeted. I wonder what it’ll do to the sound. I might get some advice from you knowledgeable folk on what layout to try out first :D
     
  17. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Will work for nuts Super Moderator

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    Even in a dedicated room and not considering WAF, there are only so many places you can put what's usually a giant black cube.

    I have a few more options since moving to a sealed sub, but when I had a BK Monolith it lived in one particular corner because that's the only place it could have lived.

    The smaller room should help with bass.
    Carpet and soft furnishings in general help with HF reflections, but won't have an impact on bass.
     
  18. saspro

    saspro IT monkey

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    Decision, decisions, decisions.

    So the DT990 Pro's went back, the piercing top end was too much to deal with for the money.
    I replaced them with a pair of Ollo S4X's, really impressed with them. Very well made, detailed, comfy and great staging. But they're very neutral. This is great for detail & mixing but not overly exciting to listen to.
    Today I received a pair of Hifiman Sundara's. After refusing to get a pair based on potential QC issues & a bit too much hype, I found a pair for a reasonable price, with a good warranty (Amazon no quibble returns) and they're actually amazing. They sound nice, they've got some bass, the top end doesn't melt my ears, they're quite comfy (admittedly I've only owned them for 3 hours) and they're so good that I forget that I'm trying to listen to them & just get lost in the music (which is the name of the game really)

    This gives a bit of a decision (which will require a lot more listening), Do I keep both or return 1 of them?
     
  19. hamza_tm

    hamza_tm Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a good position to be in lol. Interested to see what you decide! Does sound like you’re leaning towards the Hifimans though.

    In other news I couldn’t stop myself and have decided to buy Flame696’s 5.0 Tannoy surround set from the 90s. He has a thread in the marketplace.

    I actually now have a wharfedale SW150 Sub, a denon amp, Q Acoustics 2020i, Q Acoustics 3010, and have a 5.0 set of Tannoys incoming.

    Honestly haven’t the foggiest what to do with them all. Ended up moving my computer desk to the side room as the wife suggested. I love the new personal space, though it is just 12 x 10ft. I wonder if 5.1 is overkill..
     
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  20. Yaka

    Yaka Well-Known Member

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    nothing is ever over kill
     
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